The Root Of The Science Podcast
*Disclaimer: The views expressed by the guests in the podcast episodes do not reflect my own*
The Root Of The Science Podcast
EP 148: Sabine Mensah, The Role of Digital Public Infrastructure in Advancing Healthcare Services
In this episode we discuss the potential of Digital Public Infrastructure (DPI) in healthcare with Sabine Mensah, the Deputy CEO of the AfricaNenda Foundation.
Sabine shares her expert views on how DPI, with its vital components like digital identity and payment systems, is reshaping access to health services for governments, businesses, and individuals.
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How do we build systems that, at the national level or the regional level, work for us, and those systems can enable innovation to come on top, and that's where DPI becomes very relevant because, the whole intent of digital public infrastructure is to build those systems, these digital rails upon which every actor government, private sector, innovators can come in and build use cases and health is a use case, agriculture is a use case and you can, but those rails are there, there, so it is no longer the barrier, yeah, for the ecosystem to innovate and to leverage that capacity that we have to really make health more affordable to population. It's really living, competition and living. You know the ecosystem to really define themselves by how relevant they can serve consumers, particularly the most vulnerable and the ones that are in the rural area.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Root of the Sounds podcast with your girl, anne with an E. If you are new here, welcome to the show, it's such a pleasure to have you on. And if you are returning listener, thank you so much for returning. This episode is our fourth episode in our Rooted in Health series that we've been doing for the past couple of months. Today, we'll be diving into the role of digital public infrastructure, otherwise known as DPI, in strengthening health systems, and we'll be taking a particular focus on digital payments. I'm joined in this conversation with Sabine Mensah, who is the Deputy CEO at Africa Nenda Foundation, which is a leader in advancing inclusive payment systems across Africa. With her extensive experience at organizations such as the UN Capital Development Fund and Western Union, sabine brings in unique insights into how DPI can address challenges like fragmented services and financial barriers, particularly in healthcare.
Speaker 2:In this conversation, we'll discuss the intersection of the digital payments and health. We'll discuss some success stories and also explore how the african ender foundation is bridging the gap between technology and health. Let's go. Hello, sabine, welcome to the show. Hello, ann, it's a pleasure to be here. Uh, it's so lovely to have you on and to talk about your work on this particular topic. So, to get things started, I think it's important for the listeners to really understand the context. Can you please maybe define the digital public infrastructure in the context of Africa and why it's so relevant in health, for example? Ok, well, thank you very much, anne. And why it's so relevant in health for example.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, thank you very much, anne. You know, whenever I'm talking about digital public infrastructure, I can't help myself but compare it to actually the physical infrastructure cities, economies and enable trade. When we started seeing highways in major cities connecting to secondary cities, how this has impacted the economies of the cities, how this has impacted the perspective of small, medium, micro, small medium enterprises, with female entrepreneurs and being able to move goods and being able to increase your market because you're connected to a highway and that highway doesn't mind whether you have a car, you have a bike, you have a motorcycle. That's how I see digital public infrastructure. It's really the rails that are connecting the digital economy. The rails that are connecting the digital economy and these rails enable access to services for individuals, for businesses and for governments.
Speaker 1:For instance, some of the building blocks in the digital public infrastructure include digital identity. For most basic services, for financial services, you have to be identified, so having a digital identity platform at a national level means that we are enabling access to basic services in a country and in the digital economy. The second building block is payment system Instant interoperable payment system that enables you and me to send money to each other. It enables a female entrepreneur to make sure she's paid for the goods she has sold, or she can also pay her suppliers for the goods that she's looking for. It enables government to service all of us, so either by providing social payments to the most vulnerable population or by enabling us to pay for government services through government to person or person to government.
Speaker 1:And then there's a third building block, which is the data or data systems. You know how a digital economy enabled data system in a secure way, still protecting our privacy and giving us customers the ownership to say who can use our data and for what. So I think digital public infrastructure to some extent was already there. The components were there individually. It's how holistically digital public infrastructure is used to enable access to services to all and provide that societal benefit for all of us by leveraging digital identity, digital payment data platform and consent within the digital economy.
Speaker 2:Lovely. I love that analogy. It really puts it in a more simplified term so that people can really understand what DPI actually is and you know all these fundamental building blocks working together. Like you've rightly said, sabine, you've had extensive experience working in various organizations, like right now where you work at Africa Ninda Foundation. In your experience, what are some of the gaps in the African health system, for example? Do you believe that the system, this DPI is uniquely positioned to actually help with?
Speaker 1:All right, well, if you allow me to first of all tell you a bit of what we do at African Nenda, and then I can go into the health sector, I really appreciate it. Just for your information, african Enda we are a team of African experts based on a continent about 20 of us in 12 countries, and led as well and our objective and our belief is really that if we can put these digital payment systems interoperable, so the payment layer of DPI in place across all African countries, then we can really help accelerate access to finance, accelerate access to services, basic services and health.
Speaker 1:And with that in perspective, we work with government, central banks and private sector association, will provide technical assistance and will also provide capacity building and knowledge sharing now when it's the health sector.
Speaker 1:and again, first is access to health.
Speaker 1:And you look at africa.
Speaker 1:Millions of people do not have access to health and typically ask it's either uh is expensive, it is too far away for me, I don't think I can afford it, I don't think it is for me, I don't know how I would be able to. So there are so many questions access to finances, accessibility, understanding also how you can be covered for basic health services at a country level. How do you protect yourself against health shocks? How do you have a health history that you can move around with so that when you're seeing a doctor, a specialist, that person knows your history before making their assessment of where you are, so that there are no contradictions or there are no medical errors out there? Those are all the questions that I see ourselves asking ourselves. Those questions, and particularly this gets even more complex in a rural area where you know populations are very far from the main city or the main health centers, for that matter, and they're also very vulnerable in some areas. So I think those are all challenges we see across Africa, in our different countries.
Speaker 2:So how does this integration then come in and help with these challenges that every single person in Africa can relate to?
Speaker 1:Well, if you take the principle of digital public infrastructure and the principle beyond, the fact that this infrastructure access to that history and giving them the ownership of being able to share that history is based on data exchange layers that are really emphasizing privacy and emphasizing consent of sharing your, that's one area. Another area when. Another area when I look at the payment block of the DPI, I would say one of the reasons healthcare or a lot of things which is called pay as you go for health, any other services then you know it becomes a bit more affordable. You are slowly paying every day a bit of it rather than paying you know the whole amount. So you're leveraging payment systems to make pay as you go.
Speaker 1:Health outcomes and health you know services more affordable to consumers. That is also one area where the integration of DPI payment and health comes in. There's also the health system at a country level also and how technology digital technology can help improve the way we provide the service and also the way we have data that helps us analyze better the health outcome at a country level and provide health officials with efficiency in how they're managing health, rather than paper records and we all know the risk that comes with paper records, particularly in an health area. I think those are all opportunities where digital technology intersect with health, both from an information gathering and usage of information for efficiency, but also from a payments perspective in terms of affordability.
Speaker 2:As you're speaking, I was thinking that this sounds rather technical, right, particularly in an African setting, do we have the capacity to really utilize this at a full potential? Particularly, like you said, we have really underserved communities. So do we have that capacity to make this work?
Speaker 1:I absolutely think we have the capacity. I think Africa doesn't lack capacity at all. I think the challenge is transforming capacity into reality and not leaving it just at a potential level. That's where the struggle is and I've seen a lot of innovations in Africa. Mhealth type of app. I mean in Ghana. Here I see apps that help pregnant women follow their pregnancy, knowing what they need to do type of app. I mean in Ghana. Here I see apps that help pregnant women follow you know their pregnancy, knowing what they need to do, at what point and at what time. Those are type of innovations. I've seen also other apps that enables you to you know, build your health history or even have digital advice on health. You know, being able to connect to a doctor and, if you're in a remote area, by having also sharing symptoms and having an idea and then knowing when you actually need to go see the doctor. So I see a lot of innovation. I see a lot of capacity. Africa is living on digital payments.
Speaker 1:That warrants all of the efforts, whether it's government, private sector and development agencies, is how do we build systems that the national level or the regional level work for us and those systems can enable innovation to come on top, and that's where DPI becomes very relevant, because the intent of digital public infrastructure is to come on top, and that's where DPI becomes very relevant, because the whole intent of digital public infrastructure is to build those systems, these digital rails upon which every actor government, private sector, innovators can come in and build use cases and health is a use case, agriculture is a use case, and you can but those rails are there, so it is no longer the barrier, yeah, for the system to innovate and to leverage that capacity that we have to really make health more affordable to population. It's really living, competition and living. You know the ecosystem to really define themselves by how relevant they can serve consumers, particularly the most vulnerable and the ones that are in the rural area.
Speaker 2:No, it's really exciting when you speak up some of these stories, like you said, of innovations that are actually happening right here in Africa, and I think, maybe it's. Do you think maybe the issue is also the fragmentation, that things are happening in different parts and the system is not connected. So how do we make this wonderful ecosystem where people are coming together, they're doing really amazing innovations? How do we sort of streamline it so that it can effectively work? I know it's not a thing that can happen right now, but, like in the future, how can we actually do this?
Speaker 1:you know, and it's it's really a great question. You know, in africa and where I come from. But you know, first we always say it takes a village to raise a kid. Yes, and literally it takes an ecosystem to to really make this work and it also take, you know, a willingness. It takes an ecosystem to really make this work and it also takes, you know, a willingness. It takes also engagement and it takes drive.
Speaker 1:I think there's definitely an opportunity for us to come together. It's a public-private play, I would say so. I always appreciate when we're talking about public-private partnership, particularly when we're looking at it in the health ecosystem and also leveraging digital. I think it starts with, you know, a government drive and leadership and really investing into making sure that these digital public infrastructure are available at a country level and, if possible, also at the regional level. And then it takes also the opportunity for the ecosystem to be open to the innovators to come in, incentives for the private sector to work with the government to provide these public-private partnerships that can make health available to all, accessible to all, and particularly, I think, when there is a focus on the most vulnerable, and ensure that access to basic services is what drives our leadership at the country and regional level, then we start seeing this innovation coming.
Speaker 1:We also see that there are regional opportunities. There are also regional economic blocks in Africa. When we look at it from a payment system. We have country-level payment system. We also have regional-level payment system. There are three regional-level payment system live in Africa, so that enables a cross-border payment. But I think the integration of digital payments rail with health sector in particular, and how we leverage that for everybody to have the same access, is really where the opportunity is and I truly believe that we see a lot of countries moving on a digital area, having a digital strategy at the national level.
Speaker 1:And of course having a health strategy and making sure that the stakeholders on both sides actually sit together and build this strategy together. It would be the beginning of that integration and interconnection.
Speaker 2:Sounds like really exciting times ahead for Africa in this space, and it really makes me optimistic that we can solve our own issues right here at home. I love the way that you spoke about the regional and the national levels, because my next question was going to be is there a buy-in from the policymakers? Because ultimately it always comes down to that. We can have really amazing ideas, but the people who make policy for these things to be fully implemented, are they coming to the table? Are they excited? And, in your experience, do you think that's the case?
Speaker 1:You know, every time I go into a room and we're talking about digital financial services with the, the first thing they will say policy regulation.
Speaker 1:These are the challenges, these are the barriers. When I go into the room with the policy makers and the regulators, they're saying we need to know more about the ecosystem, we're worried about the risk, we need to understand. So both are valid. You know perspective, because we want the ecosystem to be a safe one that enable access to basic service. We want the innovators to also come in and be regulator, coming with the ecosystem and the stakeholder and together building what a national strategy will look like. What is the pathway to enabling access to all? In health industry? Or in the payment ecosystem? What does that take? Or in a payment ecosystem, what does that take? And I've found that when we start with consultation with the stakeholders themselves and the policymaker and the regulator, the outcome is always better, because both sides of those perspectives are on the table and we're really looking at how do we build with the constraints that each other are facing and how do we ensure that the overall outcome, which is really inclusivity access to all is what drives us.
Speaker 1:And that has, from my perspective, made the journey a bit easier and faster, because time is of essence in building these systems and these ecosystems. So I am very, very optimistic. These systems and these ecosystems. So I am very, very optimistic. I think we have the capacity in Africa and we have the talent in Africa to make it happen. We just need to work together. It takes a village.
Speaker 2:It truly does, and I love your optimism. It's contagious because, I'll be honest, I wasn't quite sure of the space prior to our conversation, but the more that you talk about it, the more I'm like, oh my goodness, these are things that I've seen and I didn't quite really understand what they are, and I think even to listeners they're like wait, I do know these digital payment systems. I do know some of these health tools that are apps that are being developed. So it's really exciting that this is the bigger picture and you know, as we sort of wrapping up this conversation, you've already shown your enthusiasm, but I just wanted to ask you how do you see the vision of DPI in Africa? Where do you think it has the potential to go to in the years to come?
Speaker 1:Wow, this is a great question. I think it's a journey. It's a journey at a country level to have a DPI strategy that brings all the stakeholders together, so they are involved in building the strategy, so that all parties can really accelerate the journey too. That's one thing. I think there's an opportunity, as these DPI strategy systems are built at a country level, to interconnect these systems to enable information flow, to enable funding, money flow across Africa.
Speaker 1:We at African Enda work particularly on the payments building block and we've seen what interoperability of these payment systems at a country level can mean for enabling access to the most vulnerable, to the most remote individual, to leverage the most basic form and have access to the entire financial ecosystem. So I think building the right DPI at a country level, interconnecting these DPI across Africa, would enable us to extend market, to extend innovation beyond just the frontiers of a single country and leverage the potential of 1.5 billion more market. And I think the Africa continental free trade area opens the market from a payments perspective, but it also opens it from innovators from one country to the other, from one region to the other, to tap into the tremendous talent that Africa has and solve the problems that we are facing from a knowledge perspective, knowing the issues and the challenges from the continent and being able to provide those solutions from the continent. That is what I'm aspiring to a deep digital public infrastructure that enables a digital transformation in Africa that leaves no one behind.
Speaker 2:Absolutely love it. I hope in years to come we can come back and be like remember what you said. Here we are and I think with the way that things move in the digital space, it will probably happen sooner rather than later. So this is really optimistic. Thank you so much, Spine, for your time for this conversation. I had such a great time and I learned so much of the potential that we have in Africa and the amazing work that you and other colleagues are doing at Africa, Nenda, to really push this so that we can have such tap rather tap into the rich tapestry that is really available for us as Africans right here. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much, Anne, and to everyone else who's tuned in, thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Root of the Science podcast with your girl, Anne, with an E. Until next time, goodbye.
