The Root Of The Science Podcast
*Disclaimer: The views expressed by the guests in the podcast episodes do not reflect my own*
The Root Of The Science Podcast
EP 151: Anne Chisa and Joy Owango, Amplifying Africans in STEM and African Research
Ever wondered how African researchers are shaping the global scientific narrative? Today, we celebrate the fifth anniversary of the Root of the Science podcast with a special collaborative episode featuring Joy Owango, the founding director of TCC Africa.
As we discuss the necessity for a multidisciplinary approach and the growing demand for digital accessibility, Joy and I tackle the strategic challenges of effectively navigating today's digital platforms, exploring how to leverage them for impactful engagement.
Together, we delve into the transformative trends in science communication and technology that are reshaping the way research is shared, consumed, and understood.
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Okay, so Mazungumso is a podcast produced by the Training Center in Communication. It's a research capacity trust based out of the University of Nairobi in Kenya. So we've been training researchers for the last 18 years on how to communicate their research, whether it's scholarly or science communication, and we realized that there was no podcast focusing on higher education and scholarly and science communication in the continent. What are our researchers doing? When we started this, it was like what are our researchers doing? Who is talking about it? Do we have to wait for international podcasts or media houses to cover it? Why can't we hear what they're doing, Whether they are well-known researchers or early career researchers? Let's see and hear what is going on in the continent.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Root of the Science podcast with your girl, anne Withany. It is 2025, can you believe it? And this is also the fifth year that we've been running this show, which is pretty, pretty, pretty exciting. And as a token of that, we have a very special episode of the Root of the Science podcast today With this five-year anniversary. I am really, really excited because we've got a special episode of the Root of the Science podcast Today.
Speaker 2:I'm thrilled to present a very unique collaboration with Mazungunzo African Scholarly Conversation. This is a joint episode that brings together two platforms committed to amplifying African voices and addressing critical issues in science, research and innovation across the continent. As you might or might not know, I am your host, anne Shisa, and today I am so honored to be joined by the remarkable Joy Owanku. She is the founding director for Training Center in Communication, otherwise known as TCC Africa. This is the first African-based training centre that is dedicated to teaching effective communication skills to scientists. Tcc Africa is making an incredible impact on the continent by improving the output and visibility of African research through scholarly and science communication. They are based at the University of Nairobi in Kenya, and TCC also works in partnership with global organizations to advance this mission.
Speaker 2:My guest Joy's contributions to this field are widely recognized. She serves on the steering committee of the Research Organization Registry and the International Science Council's project on the future of scientific publishing. She has nearly two decades of experience in scholarly capacity building and training across Africa. Joy is a leading authority on the concept of global research equity, so this is really really exciting to have her and to chat. So, whether you are joining as a listener from the Root of the Science podcast or from Mazungumso, or you're a new listener or together, this conversation is one that you won't want to miss, so let's dive in. Hello and good morning everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Root of the Science podcast with your girl and with Ani. Today it's a really special episode because I am not alone. I am teaming up with the one and only Joy Owango from the Mazungumzo African Scholarly Conversations to join me on this joint episode. Joy hi.
Speaker 1:Hi, and this is so exciting. Yes, I'm Joy and we're excited to bring both of our audiences together for this episode. Whether you're listening from the Root of Science podcast or Mazungumzo, african Scholarly Conversations, you are in for a great conversation, so let's get into it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, joy. I think maybe for my podcast audience they might not know who you are. So the first question is that you know. Your podcast Mazungunzo has created a really unique and important platform to discuss African research, particularly in this landscape. So for those who are unaware, what issues do you actually focus on and why are these conversations so important?
Speaker 1:Okay, so Mazungumso is a podcast produced by the Training Centre in Communication. It's a research capacity trust based out of the University of Nairobi in Kenya. So we've been training researchers for the last 18 years on how to communicate their research, whether it's scholarly or science communication, and we realized that there was no podcast focusing on higher education and scholarly and science communication in the continent. What are our researchers doing? When we started this, it was continent what are our researchers doing? When we started this, it was like what are our researchers doing? Who is talking about it? Do we have to wait for international podcasts or media houses to cover it? Why can't we hear what they're doing, Whether they are well-known researchers or early career researchers? Let's hear what, let's see and hear what is going on in the continent.
Speaker 1:The beauty about a digital platform or digital communications is that it will just blow up, so it's just not localized. It gives a global. It gives access to a global audience on the conversations we are doing. So we were very deliberate. We say we wanted to interview Africans or partners who are working in Africa, but predominantly Africans. Let them have their conversations on what is happening. Let the world know what is happening on scholarly communication and science communication in Africa because it is huge. We have the usual subjects, you know, like STEM, women in science, maternal health, these or even research on food security. These are relevant research areas, but they all connect to scholarly communication. They all connect to science communication because it's about visibility of your work. So that is how we set up Mazungumzo and I'm really happy about it because you're our second partner in the podcast space and we look forward to this partnership. Tell me more about this, the root of science, and why you started it, and what have you gained out of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, just listening to your motivation for starting your podcast, there's a lot of similar similarities, um, and it's quite beautiful that you know you were in kenya and you saw the same problem and I'm I was in south africa and I saw the same problem where it was. You know us as researchers. We are doing amazing work af African researchers. Right, you know the ability to see our research being communicated, uh, particularly to society. Um, it's not that out there. It's usually, you know your, your journals, which are great, but, um, not everybody reads them Exactly. So there was that was like one of the the one thing, like you know we working with, we as scientists, we do research to solve societal issues, so how do we go back and translate our findings to society? And I think another important thing when I was doing this is that I realized that there was a visibility issue. It was a problem.
Speaker 2:It was very difficult to see scientists who look like us, who are Africans, in mainstream media, because the stereotypical image is of someone who's probably from the West and they're much older, but the truth of the fact is that scientists look like you and I as well, so that was also part of the reason that I wanted to amplify them. I wanted to amplify that. That's how the root of the science came together and that's what really inspired me to to start this platform, and it's been beautiful because as much as, like I said, that we amplify, we amplify africans. Another important thing that I wanted to showcase is that africans are are all over the globe. They're doing really amazing things, even if they're not in africa, and it's another thing where somebody can aspire to be like. I know someone who is from my village in Malawi, or not even a village, but like I know a Malawian who is in Russia, and they're doing science.
Speaker 2:Exactly exactly so that and it's one of the main important things that I show Africans all over the globe who are doing absolutely amazing work and innovations, and I mean it's evolved in a beautiful way from from it not being I don't know what to call it Like it was. It was. It felt like a pit project initially, like I didn't know what I was doing, but now here we are.
Speaker 1:It's like a little child that I've been raising.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like a baby that I've been raising and now reaching out and connecting with people like yourself, where we like, hey, we're doing something similar. Let's come together, let's take it to the next level. Yes, precisely, precisely so. Joy, you said that you've been in this communication field for a long time, like you said that you were at TCC training people for over 20 years. So how has the landscape evolved?
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, and you love you. So you see, we were facing the same problem like you were facing. You chose a digital platform. So we started with the actual training because we realized this was about 18 years ago. We realized I was in a project where we had biosafety and biotechnology scientists being the same project, writing scholarly publications and none of them understood each other. Technology scientists being the same project, writing scholarly publications and none of them understood each other. And I was like how is this possible? You're not even talking about. You're talking to non-scientists. People are asking questions like I don't understand how he's what he's written in his paper.
Speaker 1:So we, that is when we approached the University of Nairobi and we said you know what we want? To help the academic community by guiding them on how they can write scholarly communication and write applications where other researchers who are not in their field could understand. And it was just about the time when funders were demanding for multidisciplinary approach to research. So how can you explain to me? You're a biological scientist and a social scientist is not going to understand your work and yet you have to work together. I mean examples, typical examples like research on malaria. Wherever you go in Africa, there's research on malaria. There's an entomologist who's going to work on it. There's going to be a health scientist going to work on it, a social scientist, an economist. They have to understand each other's work, understand each other, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that is how we started training scientists. We do that every month, training on scholarly communication. Then we realized, okay, so we're kind of helping you on how to improve your writing and writing to different audiences, scientific communities. Now, how can you communicate to non-scientists? You know you need to now look at your paper and say, okay, how can I create an opinion editorial out of this, how can I get a news article out of this?
Speaker 1:So for us, we started doing the grant work. I like calling it grant work because it made us see all these other dynamics of the challenges that came about. And we are so proud of that because we've trained over 30,000. Wow, we've trained over 30,000 researchers. Okay, we've trained over 30,000 researchers. Okay, we've trained over 30,000 researchers. And it's amazing and we have our calendars booked back to back. And now, with the rise of technology, it's showing them the various open access research solutions that they can use to improve their research discovery, solutions that they can use to improve their research discovery, which leads to producing better quality research. And using the various solutions that can aid now, digital solutions that can aid them in writing better. Okay, so you see everything is gelling and, um, from that space we realized we need to reach a larger audience and because now the scientists are doing their part.
Speaker 1:They are no longer worried about how am I going to write this, because they know there's a support system for that. What happens if my work is misconstrued, misquoted? No, we've guided them on how to write and how to protect themselves from that. So, meaning you have, if you're talking about your research in the press, you'd have to base it on published work. Nobody's going to question published work. Okay, people will question maybe the data, but if the data is negative, it is the data. It's not. You're not going to change it to suit your needs. It is the data as it is.
Speaker 1:So we've seen a change from scientists being worried about communicating their work to non-scientists to them now coming up for our trainings and saying, yes, I need this because they know, not because even the funder wants it. It's because they know there's a huge, there's a paradigm shift in communication because of digital communications and they need to be relevant. We are living in an information age where people are demanding access to information and scientists are still trusted as a source of information. So that has really changed. Funders are becoming much, have become very receptive to science communication Before it used to be. Ah, that's the last thing. You know. It's communications After the last days, you know.
Speaker 1:So you have a little budget and you're wondering how am I going to support the entire ecosystem? But now it has become the primary budget. But then, at the same time, now with the rise of digital communications like podcasts, tiktok, we are seeing scientists opening up and talking about their work. That's why we have academic TikToks, we have academic podcasts, and they're becoming more confident. So it's not only a paradigm shift, but it's also a generational shift. This has literally taken a generation.
Speaker 1:My father was a scientist and there was no way he would have done this oh God, no. And then he was the director of the largest agricultural research center in Eastern Central Africa. As long as it's published, he's good there. There was no way. And then along come his children, who say, yeah, we should use social media. You know, we should use these other platforms. You know you look at me like I've grown an extra head. So you see it's generational.
Speaker 1:So our generation and your generation are adapting to technology, influencing funders and policymakers to adapt to technology in communicating science. So that is such a good thing and what I can say is that there are more positive responses ahead, with scientists becoming more confident about sharing their knowledge, and also coming from Africa, you know, based on what you're saying, more Africans are saying you know, we need to talk about our stories, we need to talk about our research. We need to show our contribution to the world on what we are doing in various research areas, not just being recipients of funding, but this is what we are doing. This is what we are trying to export in terms of knowledge, so we're not going to wait for somebody to trumpet it for you, and that is why now, we are making that deliberate effort to communicate their work.
Speaker 2:Absolutely amazing. I like what you said about the shift. I don't know if you've noticed, but I think it's becoming a little bit more accelerated.
Speaker 1:you've noticed, but I think it's becoming a little bit more accelerated, and do you think we can?
Speaker 2:keep up with how fast things are changing, because, I mean, I'm thinking from four years ago when I started. When I mentioned podcasting, people looked at me like what are you talking about? Even when I was starting this, everyone was like this is a distraction. Focus on we, we write I don't know blogs or whatever, like nobody wanted to hear this version. But then now, like you said that there is like, people are like oh yeah, no. Now, like you can see, organizations are like okay, we're trying to create a way to be accessible digitally and we want to be. And I'm like, oh well, finally, welcome, welcome to the party.
Speaker 1:Then it has become a rabbit hole. Have you noticed? It feels like an Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole, Because the technology moves at a very fast pace. That's what I'm saying. The acceleration is on jet fuel and then you find yourself in this Wonderland rabbit hole trying to figure out okay, so what works? How do I make it work for me? Because, just like when we started our podcast and then we went into the TikTok sphere and everybody's like why? Yeah, it was a very cautious, scary, why?
Speaker 1:Everybody you know you tell that yeah, but we have an academic TikTok, like why are you doing this? And within a month no, within three months we had over 10,000 followers, we had viral videos, and it's the same thing talking on scholarly publishing, supporting you on the research lifecycle. So it is, with the rise of this digital communications and digital platforms, and with their fast pace in development, we need to be strategic on what works for us and make the best out of it, because it is developing. On jet fuel. It's going so fast and for somebody who's never been in this space, it is a rabbit hole. It is a rabbit hole.
Speaker 1:And each of those, when you get into that wonderland, each of them have an audience and they have certain expectations and that audience is going to engage you if you give them information. So one has to be very strategic. So, for organizations that want to get into this sphere, especially when they're adapting to digital communications, they have to be a bit more strategic about what works for them. But at the same time, be warned it is a rabbit hole that you're getting into. And what about you? What have you noticed on your side?
Speaker 2:I think you're absolutely right that now a lot of people, like I rightly said, now are realizing like, hey, maybe we need to start doing this, but I don't think they're well equipped to do it, because it's not the same thing.
Speaker 2:And sometimes, just because you're a scientist does not mean you're a science communicator, and I think that's why what we're doing and what we do is important to be that go between. And I've really I've really realized that as well that, as much as you are wanting to do it, sometimes the way that you do it is not the same way that we would have done it, because we've had the experience, we've been able to test things out that are working, things that are not working, much as I'm really excited that institutions are wanting to be on, but I think it's important to have platforms like ourselves, or maybe reach out to people like ourselves to say, hey, we've seen the work that you're doing help us, and I mean that's why we are here, plugging into those existing systems to expand your visibility, because it takes time to build an audience base and also it's trial and error, and this is something you've also gone through.
Speaker 1:It's a trial and error process but, most importantly, it's also recognizing that podcasts are the new media that exists, so you cannot start creating your own media and you end up having fragmented conversations. And this is why we are having this partnership, so that we are speaking the same voice, we are cross-pollinating our audiences so that they know what is happening on each side. I think also, it is an exciting moment for most research organizations, also an aha moment that oh, there are platforms you can work with, but they also need to be aware of the sustainability of it. It's not. I have a great idea. Let's set up a podcast. You need to start asking yourself do I have enough content for an entire season? Yes, and this is where everybody bulks in fear, because we've had such conversations and they're like yes, we want to set up a podcast, brilliant, so give me ideas for season one, 12. And I'm not talking about weekly podcast, I'm talking about monthly podcast. Give me an idea, give me ideas for season one and season two halfway, so that we are not going to be rushing Okay, so you don't have content. Give me ideas of where you're going to get your content.
Speaker 1:So digital platforms are good, but you need to look beyond, and the beyond bit is the sustainability aspect. It is the sustainability aspect of it. If you don't have that in mind, it's it's going to collapse because it is a media platform like any other media platform. You need to ask yourself how can we become competitive in the sense that, yeah, people can see us. Yeah, how, yeah, how do we partner with various uh, uh platforms so that people can see it from now? A continental level. They stop seeing a podcast. They are seeing, oh, there are series of podcasts in this area coming out of the continent.
Speaker 1:That is sustainability as well, and you know, when it is a media house, it means that you have staff. At some point, you'll have staff. You have an editor, you have a producer, you have a content producer. You know that you have stuff. At some point, you'll have stuff. You have an editor, you have a producer, you have a content producer. You know you have. How are you going to pay them? So it's no longer. I'm doing this from my nice little corner in the sitting room, in the bedroom, in the dungeon, if you have that. Yeah, it's a team, it's a media house and um, so it's it's something that organizations need to critically ask themselves what they intend to do. It's fun and games until when you realize you can't sustain the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I want to ask you has there been a moment in your doing this work because, like you've been doing it for a long time, training scientists doing this work because, like you've been doing it for a long time, training scientist um, where you felt like I can't, I am like it's, I've had enough, I want to quit, um. And then how did you overcome that? Like what made you not quit? Because obviously you haven't goodness.
Speaker 1:There's a time when we were training and we had two people in the training room and I was like I'm really sure you're having problems communicating your work, and I remember that day. I was so upset. But the two came. You see, they still made a commitment and it was on my heart to just say you know what, there'll be ups and downs, so you just need to be committed and be consistent. Those two were the connecting dot of consistency to the next 100. These days we train up to. There was a time we did a training and we had 1,500 in the class. Wow, it was so overwhelming. And then we did it again to 700 and we're like this is a lot. But I always remember those two. They are a connecting in funded projects Because the funder will demand good quality publications where you publish your work.
Speaker 1:They'll want that work accessible, so they'll pay for it. So what happens to the greater community that doesn't have funding? Yeah, you've got big universities. What happens to the smaller universities? So that level of consistency has found us in a situation whereby most of our trainers in the beginning were master's students. Now three quarters of all our trainers are PhDs. They used to be PhDs in their 50s and 60s. Now they are younger, so now they're even using digital platforms when they are training. I mean that level those. And we're also seeing a situation the people we trained are now becoming trainers. When they had their masters, they had their undergrads. Now they have their PhDs. So you need one needs to be consistent. One needs to be consistent. How about you with the podcast? How did it go?
Speaker 2:I'm sure there are times you, you look at your numbers and you're like yeah, I mean to be honest. You know, know, in the podcasting um world, everything is about numbers and we make it like because you think of these big podcasts where they have millions of followers but, for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you're like oh no, why do I only in the beginning? You have 10 people you know and, um, I was like am I doing what I'm meant to be doing? And I love what you said about consistency. Before I I speak about the other parts like that's what made people come to me like you know what? And we've seen your work, we've seen you're consistent and it's a game changer, even if it's like every single week. There are weeks where I don't even want to. There are days where my life is happening, like life is happening to me, and I don't want to. But the major thing that I've seen is that when people want to collaborate, they want to work with you. They look, they're like, oh, we've seen you've been so consistent, you've done all of this work and I'm like, oh, ok at okay, at least you know it wasn't in vain. Yeah, yeah, it makes a huge difference. And on the numbers aspect, with podcasting, I think, um, I had a conversation with she's someone who I really admire, but she's in a very different niche.
Speaker 1:She's in true crime podcasting so this was when I first numbers there exactly so.
Speaker 2:When I first started doing a podcast, um, I was joining all these um facebook groups and it was mainly people in the us, because this was 2020, before covid. Yeah, nobody knew what a podcast was. Even on spotify, it was only available in kenya, south Africa, egypt and Nigeria.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are the only countries that were yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, but the other parts, nobody was there. So, anyway, there's this lady who I've been friendly with and I really chat to her sometimes and she said to me you know what, anne, you are in a niche, right, podcasting has got specific niches. You are in a niche and you have to honor your niche. You have to honor your audience and sometimes we get so wrapped up in wanting to have 10 000 people listen to us, but you've got 50 people who come onto your podcast every single week and I think sometimes we we really need to start realizing that we have to honor our audience and we have to honor our listeners because they make they the ones who keep on coming back.
Speaker 1:So that's what.
Speaker 2:I always tell people that you have to understand. We are in academia. It's like, okay, fine, we are in science. Then we are in academia. Or well, we're in academia. Then it's like science, and then you get more and more. So then it starts to get a little bit. You know, smaller and smaller and smaller. And you have to understand you are in a niche field, you are an independent, you don't have the producers, you don't have the marketing as Joe Rogan.
Speaker 1:So on an audience.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, that's the one. Because every single time I say I'm a podcast, somebody goes oh, like Joe Rogan, I'm like no, not him, not him, but like no. I always go like me, like no, I'm the one. But I think that's what, if I can say anything to anyone who's starting a podcast who's starting this journey?
Speaker 1:Know your audience, yeah, and honor your audience I like that honor and be committed to your audience.
Speaker 2:Yeah it is a marriage.
Speaker 1:Hey, it's through till death.
Speaker 2:Do you part and hopefully the death doesn't happen do you have people where they will send you a message, sorry to cut you. They'll be like oh, we haven't seen you. You know, like when you go on a bit of a break, um like, oh, was there a person? You didn't upload last week? I remember when I changed my uploading to, I used to upload every week, but then I did every twice a week. So somebody messaged me the the first time that we did it. Oh, on Monday, we saw you didn't have a podcast and I'm like, oh, no, I'm uploading every two weeks. So that's when I realized I was like oh, my goodness, I am in a marriage.
Speaker 1:No, you see, one of the things, okay. So, uh, my content producer asked um, are we going to produce this every week, every two weeks? I was like, um, no, you do it every month. Yes, a month, and we will make sure that the world knows that this podcast is coming. We'll do trailers, you know we will. There will be stories leading to the podcast and then, once the podcast is out, it is, it will just snowball it out so that people know about it.
Speaker 1:And, and you know that was, and you know, when she came back to me she was like yeah, that was a good idea. Why? Because people are listening. I've been to Europe, I've been to the Middle East, I've been to Asia, where people say, oh yeah, we've listened to your podcast. That is scary, you know, because in your mind you're thinking, ah, because you're based in Kenya. You know because in your mind you're thinking, ah, because you're based in Kenya, kenya, east Africa, south Africa, you know, west Africa and a bit of North Africa then, when you look at the analytics you're like, oh my goodness, there are people listening to this.
Speaker 1:So that commitment, as you said, honoring your audience is so important and it is the beauty of honoring the audience is what makes the world know what we are doing, and it is brought about by consistency. So there are times you look at the numbers you're like, oh goodness, what happened here? But then it's a podcast. You have the right to reshare it. The world can see it again in case you missed it, and all that. So nothing is lost, and it's on a digital platform. It is perpetual. People will always have access to it. And then I'm also seeing now a situation where some of the major stakeholders on the continent in scholarly and science communication reaching out to us so that we can interview them talking about the work they're doing. That is such an honor. And you know you're finalizing season three, now preparing for season four, and the scary thing was that when we were nominated, we got two nominations through AfriPod and I was like, oh, we are that good, you know, sometimes you can do this Well done.
Speaker 1:So you're like oh so we're actually doing something right. Not one, but two nominations, and that goes to show that people are listening and podcast curators are looking for different types of audiences and niches that are being that are being supported by various podcasts. It's just not the usual true crime business finance. It's what's happening in higher education. What's happening? You know, and that is good to see, and that evolution of digital communication is a big plus for us, and we are riding that wave. We are riding that wave, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's an exciting time for um, for africans and the african, you know, communication space, speaking of audiences, joy, um, I'm sure people can. Uh, our listeners are like, okay, that's great, you guys are doing all of this amazing thing. So for somebody who is my audience, what can they expect if they're like, okay, what can we like? I now know about Mazubu, so what can they when they come to your podcast? What can they expect when they listen in?
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 1:So what they can expect is understanding the ecosystem that helps make their research visible and the various partners on the continent that can aid them and the trends they can take advantage of, especially when it comes to making their work visible and accessible. Let's remember that research is an expensive process. Publishing is expensive, as it were. Of course, publishing is expensive, as it were, and we've been seeing researchers struggling to have access to information, and the fact that our podcast looks and works with the various stakeholders on the continent to make information free of charge, free to read, free to publish, it is going to show them the various technologies, trends, stakeholders who are aiding in helping this, and also it will guide them in knowing what is happening, even in the individual countries. We are really excited about one of the podcast interviews we are going to host at the next month, and this is the African Journals Online. And we are going to host at the next month and this is the African Journals Online and you're going to be talking about Diamond Open Access. Now, if you look at let's start from African Journals Online aspect of it, it is a bibliographic database where African, which only hosts African, journals. So your researchers would, once you've done your research and they're like I want to publish in African journals. Africans have been producing journals. There is a database with all that Lovely, and these are indexed databases, high quality journals that are indexed not only in Africa but globally. Okay, and then there's the Diamond Open Access conference that is happening. Then there's the Diamond Open Access Conference that is happening. When you talk about Diamond Open Access, it means that, as a researcher, it is free for you to publish and free for you to read. So it's free, 100% free. So understanding these trends that are happening on the continent will impact where this person is going to publish his work and how it will help increase the visibility of his work or how work. So it is the next step. So Manchisa's audience know this. You've done your research, you've published, You're in the process of publishing.
Speaker 1:Azungumzo comes in with the next steps. What are the trends? Where can you publish? Who are the stakeholders to make sure that you have free, you're able to publish in open access platforms and how can you make your work accessible and who in Africa is helping you to make this possible? Because for the longest time, people would say, yeah, are Africans publishing? You know, is anyone in Africa, even supporting the ecosystem. Yes, there is a whole litany of stakeholders who are helping. So these are the people we are interviewing so that you know what is there in your region or in your country to help. So that is what you'd expect to hear from us, and it will be both in scholarly and science communication. Oh, that's very exciting, yeah. And then for you, tell us what are we going to get from your side.
Speaker 2:Oh, lovely. So for us on the Root of the Science podcast, we have two nuanced conversations where we have specific series that are themed, that are focused on particular topics. So, for example, right now we are doing something called Rooted in Health and we are speaking about some health issues that are such as sexual and reproductive health.
Speaker 1:We're speaking on the idea of.
Speaker 2:HIV, the vaccine, what are some innovations? What are policy? What are some of the solutions? Technological? Who is funding it? We spoke on nutrition. What are some of the big stakeholders that are funding these types of research, et cetera. And then we have more. This is sort of the bread and butter of why I started this podcast. We have more conversational conversations where we bring in a scientist or a researcher or an innovator and we have a candid conversation, because when I started this the Root of the science podcast, I wanted to to know, like a scientist, that you're more than just a scientist, as much as we even understand about your research. I wanted to know the root of the science. Who are you, what? What else do you do? What are some of your struggles? So we have more candid conversations. Then we'll have something where it's like AI in health, which is very serious. We're speaking to conversations. Then we'll have something where it's like ai in health, which is very serious. We're speaking to the experts. We're speaking to the innovators, the people who are developing solutions.
Speaker 2:And then we also have the visible role models where we have young, up-and-coming researchers or somebody who is in the thick of it and they're telling you that this is my, my story of doing a PhD in Oxford, or my story of doing a PhD in, or masters in Russia or here in Africa and we're like hey, I can relate to some of these things.
Speaker 2:We talk about such issues of, like, mental health, being away from home, visa issues, so these are conversations that you know Africans can relate to globally. So it's that whole idea that we amplify the work and we also have very rich, nuanced conversations so that you can find our series. We did innovative solutions in Africa. We did AI women in AI which was really really cool. Yeah, we're like, hey, african women in ai, particularly because you know ai is is something that's really on the topic, but, like, women are also behind it african women, yeah, what are they?
Speaker 2:yeah, so it's, we have. We have various different themes and with um other organizations and partners and we create um conversations. I mean, and we go like, for example, I was in lindau, which is in germany, we went to go and see the lindau noble laureates, so I had conversations with.
Speaker 2:That's nice uh, yeah, so some of the prize winners, so some stuff like this. Where we get to travel, we we put that onto the show and we're like these are africans in who are like attending young scientists who are attending physics. So these are some of the things that you can come in and you can come and see. So you are speaking on like publishing your research. We're like, okay, once you've published it, have a conversation about your research.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe let's focus on what type of I don't know bio. What was that? You said something about bio information, or bio technology.
Speaker 1:Bio technology yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so maybe, maybe then we could have like a whole episode focused on African biotechnology. Ah right, and then the beauty is that now we can go and we can be like hey Mazungunzo, who has spoken about biotechnology in Africa, and then we can potentially have them onto the show. So that's that whole cross-pollination that we are talking about, and these are some of the things that I'm really excited that our partnership will do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is great. Now, as we are wrapping up, what do you see, Because we are both podcasters and we pretty much jumped into the murky waters and somehow survived what do you see as the future of our podcasts in terms of influencing researchers, influencing communication and influencing the trends on how African researchers can effectively communicate their work?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great question. I think our podcast has such great potential to really influence these conversations because, apart from just raising awareness, which is really, really important, I think we can then start having how do I say this? Then we can now start having a place of like. So what Like? What can we do with this research that we do? What does policy say about it? Because it's all well and good, because ultimately it always ends up there, right we're for implementation purposes.
Speaker 2:So I think our conversation, I mean our podcast, uh, can be a conversation starter.
Speaker 2:Do we then start, um, do we then maybe start bringing in the people where we like would love to have a conversation with you and the scientists and then start asking those questions, like really getting to the meat of it?
Speaker 2:And I think it's really, really exciting, because when I started it and I think it's really, really exciting because when I started this, like you rightly said, it was very murky waters it was me just doing a passion project, but I've realized that it's so much more. It's more than it just being about me and my passion project. I've seen the impact that it has, because even with the people we interview on our show, somebody notices them and they're like hey, you had this person who was on your show, I'd love to talk to them, maybe have an area of experience, and we also become that like for my vision for for the podcast not even the podcast, the root and root of the science media to be that premier platform where, when you think of african um communication, you think of us and where, even now, we see the beauty of it, where we're like hi, and you know someone who is doing work in neuroscience or cardiology and I'm like hey.
Speaker 2:I think I've interviewed someone a long time ago. Oh, I know someone who knows someone who can help right and I think that's great, because that's what we amplify, so that somebody can be like we know who to ask because you are the person having these conversations with these researchers as well. Um, what about you? You know two things.
Speaker 1:Number one is we want to amplify the state of scholarly communication in Africa, because scholarly communication is the direct cause and effect which leads to the effect of the visibility of African research. It's one thing to do the work, but it's where you publish, how you publish avenues that you choose, that will make it accessible. So we want to be the conduit where African researchers know that there's a platform talking about all the stakeholders who can help in aiding the disability of their work. Number two we want the world to understand the trends and the contributions Africa is making in making research accessible, whether it is continental innovations, whether it is continental engagements, whether it's going to be at an infrastructural level, publishing level, open policy level. Let the world know what is happening in Africa in making in terms of scholarly communication and science communication, because when you look at those two subjects you think it's just an issue of publishing. No, it is. This infrastructure involved, this policy involved. There's a lot of engagement involved. So what are we doing to support that, such that we have a cohesive conversation on the same? So we want to be the go-to partner when it comes to understanding the higher education sector in school and in science communication, which is key to the visibility of research output. Then, just like you, we're in a situation whereby we have stakeholders reaching out to us oh, do you know so-and-so? And you're like, no, no, no, we have stakeholders reaching out to us oh, do you know so-and-so? And you're like, no, no, no, we've interviewed them already on our podcast or we intend to interview them, so we're already seeing how we're becoming a resource. You know, it's such a nice unintended consequence and I hope that we will continue with that trend and influence conversations when it comes to scholarly and science communication and also blend it seamlessly with various podcasts that are science-based or research-based. So I think it's exciting times ahead.
Speaker 1:Adapting to technology was definitely a rabbit hole. People started with social media and here we are. Okay, but I feel, as you said, it's a good time to be an African scientist. Yeah, we have our issues. I love my continent. It has its issues, but it's a good time to be an African. It's a good time to be an African scientist because we are in control of our narratives. Before, we used to want to do it. Now we are actually doing it and we are taking advantage of various platforms to talk about our narratives, to talk about our word, and our podcasts are helping in achieving that, and I couldn't think of a better way to wind up by saying that, yes, we jumped into murky waters. The water is getting clearer right now. Yes, it definitely is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it definitely is. Um you, you actually said this is a wonderful place to wind up and it's exciting, I'm excited, I'm excited for your listeners to to have another source of african, of African science content, and my listeners as well, and also the wonderful partnerships and other amazing things that will come from us collaborating it looks like next year, is going to be very, very exciting.
Speaker 1:It is. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited about our partnership.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, anne, thank you so much, joy, and to everybody else who's tuned in, thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Root of the Science podcast. Until next time, goodbye, bye, everybody.
