The Root Of The Science Podcast
*Disclaimer: The views expressed by the guests in the podcast episodes do not reflect my own*
The Root Of The Science Podcast
EP 154: Prof Kennedy Dzama, Rethinking Food Systems to Combat Hunger in Southern Africa
Nearly 19 million children in Southern Africa face stunting, while over 40 million people experience food insecurity annually. What drives these alarming statistics and how can we address them effectively?
Professor Kennedy Dzama, who leads the Southern Africa Food Lab at Stellenbosch University, offers profound insights into this critical issue.
He talks about the interconnectedness of climate change and food security, the establishment of the Southern Africa Food Lab and how it uses research and collaboration to address food insecurity.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Root of the Science podcast with your girl and with an E. If you are new here, welcome to the show, and if you are regular, thank you so much for tuning in. We really appreciate the time. Thank you to people who like and share this podcast. Remember that if you're listening on YouTube, you can please hit the subscribe button at the bottom of the page so that you are aware when a new episode drops in. But let's get into today's episode.
Speaker 1:So our focus today is on food security, and we're focusing on it in the context of Southern Africa. That is because hunger has risen across Southern Africa over the past two decades, with issues such as climate change, pests and diseases. Conflict, natural disasters, poverty, gender inequality and diseases contribute to food insecurity. Nearly 19 million children are stunted and over 40 million people face food insecurity annually, according to the Southern African Development Community. Our guest today is Professor Kennedy Dzama. He is an expert in animal genetics and leads the Southern Africa Food Lab at Stellenbosch University in South Africa. The Food Lab brings together stakeholders and different actors to address hunger and malnutrition, and other overnutrition as well, through collaboration and innovation. Professor Stammer's work connects agriculture and food system, and today he's here to share insights on how the region can tackle these challenges. Tune in to learn about this research and the lab's efforts to improve food security and work within the food systems. Let's go, hello, prof. Prof Zama, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Hi and thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:It is such a pleasure to have you on, and you know, to chat about the fantastic work that your lab is doing. But first things first, Prof, we'd love to get to know a bit about you before we get to know about the work. So can you please kindly introduce yourself, touching on some parts of your education and what really sparked this journey of your speciality, which is animal genetics.
Speaker 2:Okay, you're taking me really far back. Well, I was born in Zimbabwe and my early life was spent there by my parents were farmers, so that's really what sparked my interest in this field that I find myself in. I was always intrigued by how they use their basic knowledge of animal and crop production in particular, genetics, which I eventually specialized in how they use that basic information to improve their own, you know, processes on the farm producing some crops and some animals, some crops and some animals. And then I took up a degree in animal sciences at the University of Zimbabwe and then I went to the US after that for my master's and PhD and then came back to, let's say, Africa, because I came back and worked at the University of Zimbabwe and then had a stint in Malawi and then came to South Africa, which is where you find me now.
Speaker 1:Oh, lovely, so impressive. I like the fact that it really started with your parents and all these years later you are here and you've had such an impressive career, prof, like you said, it's a very long journey, but could you maybe tell us about some of the research projects that you're most proud of in this illustrious career of yours and why they also stand out for you in this illustrious career of yours, and why they also stand out for you.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's always difficult.
Speaker 1:Is it like picking your favorite child?
Speaker 2:Yes, Because it's been a lot of work that we have put together over the last, you know, 20, 30 years. But I actually spoke to a friend of mine who's just bought a farm and he was asking me about some of the work that I've done and that actually brought a spark into me and I thought about that. That could be some of the most important work I've done. This work has to do with pigs. He's trying to set up a pig production system which would be in some ways free range, in some ways organic, trying to certify local production and also, you know, working with commercial outlets. Then I remembered that and he had read this book and I had sort of packed it on the side. I actually want to go back to that sometime, to go back to that sometime.
Speaker 2:So we have actually put together a very good baseline of what pigs to use in those different setups. In particular. This is very important now, if you look at how we consume, we consume meat or pig meat or pork in terms of the demand for organic or free-range pork. And no one really knows how to do this and I've met some farmers around here and also when I was working in Zimbabwe, we were trying different things and that led me to do some of that research. So we have done some of the genetics of what type of animal can be used in that and we started characterizing it. But then I haven't really finished that work, but I think that that is very important, especially now that one of my old friends was looking at it and he thinks it's very important in what he's doing now. So that's one of those pieces of work that I really value quite a bit, among others, of course.
Speaker 1:That's so impressive. So, basically, you're characterising these pigs and especially, I think now in this setting, like you rightly said, people are more conscious about the types of food that they eat. Where does it come from? How was it bred? So I think it's very topical and very important. So I think you should definitely go back to that, prof, and I'm glad that having a conversation sparked it up again, because I'm sure, as somebody at your level, you have done extensive work in different parts. Right, yeah, correct, yeah. So let's talk about your current child, which is the work that you're doing at Stellenbosch University here in South Africa, and it's called the Southern Africa Food Labs Initiative.
Speaker 2:So for our listeners, who might not know what it is. Could you please maybe explain that for us and paint a picture on what this initiative is all about? Yes, this is an initiative that started around 2009. And this is when like-minded practitioners, let's say from very diverse backgrounds, came together with the whole idea of looking and exploring the food system that we have, not just here in South Africa, but on the South and African subcontinent, and to look at issues like hunger, malnutrition, overnutrition as well.
Speaker 2:Okay, and how, you know, all these issues played out in our food system. So it included people from corporate, from academia like myself, from grassroots actors, from government, from NGOs you know, grassroots actors, from government, from NGOs and they came together with that same goal of investigating, exploring and maybe try to come up with solutions on various problems that we see in our food systems, as much as sometimes we feel like in some parts of the region perhaps maybe this country we might we might have enough food produced, but, for example, how is that food made accessible to all the different parts of the population? For example, are some people not getting enough or are some people getting too much? And both ends actually do come up with unique problems, and those are some of the things, in a very broad sense, that we're trying to look at.
Speaker 1:Prof, you know this conversation and the work that you're doing. You mentioned all the different areas that it touches on. It's very complex, right, and it's got very interrelated causes, like you've already mentioned. Like this, you've given us a very broad overview. So, um, I wanted to ask, um, I'm sure there are other initiatives, um, in other parts of the, in parts and parts of that, in other parts of the world, that do this types of work. So what makes the lab, your lab approach, maybe, unique or different, or are you maybe using some similar ideas that other people are doing in tackling all of these issues?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think in many ways we'll use tools that others have used, but our approach is obviously interdisciplinary and also transdisciplinary and in many cases multidisciplinary as well.
Speaker 2:Like I said to you, it's a whole diverse group of actors that we've put together and then we use different tools to try and see how we can try to perhaps not solve, but make situations better. And then we have people coming in with different tools to try and help us and work with us to try and make these situations better. As you know, the food system is a complex issue. It's not something that you can solve. As you know, the food system is a complex issue. It's not something that you can solve by some linear tool. It involves all these actors truly working together, and that's what we think we're doing. So it's for others to judge whether we are unique or not, but I think that some of the work that we have done on the ground working in KZN, working here in the Western Cape, for example has shown that we can actually bring people together from very different viewpoints, which is not easy to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, in the end, make them try to see things in the same light, but remaining who they are. So that is really what we try and do Just the diversity of this group, I think helps us to try and unpack these complexities.
Speaker 2:Someone was asking me the other day a very similar question says you're working with so-and-so, and in that question they asked about a colleague of mine, a prof to Lima Dunsel, and they said doesn't that bring conflict? That is overstepping. And I said no, no, no, no. We work so well together. She works on some of our projects, we work on some of her projects. We bring expertise that they don't have and vice versa. So that kind of synergy is how we're working and see that it works very well.
Speaker 2:There are many other examples. If I had time I would delve into this, but if you go on our website, you'll see some of the things that we're doing.
Speaker 1:You know, when you spoke of, for example, your colleague Prof Trudy Madensela, I actually wanted to ask about how you foster these types of collaborations. You mentioned you're working with various different actors. You've got academics who think a particular way. You've got, um, people in policy who think a particular way. You're probably working with the farmers, who also think in a particular way. Um, so, how do you, um, you know, go about having these, rather facilitate having these conversations, so that the project goes forward and it's effective?
Speaker 2:Well, to begin with, there are trained facilitators who work in these spaces of, who know how to bring these types of people that and it's not always people with diverse opinions or views. It could be people with the same sort of thinking, but maybe not seeing things in the same way. So, and also the nature of the work we do requires that you are wired in a certain way. I mean, there are people that are suited to work in, you know, single disciplines, what we sometimes call silos, and that's fine. I think they should do that, because transdisciplinary or multi or interdisciplinary work requires those people to generate knowledge for us, and then we can use that knowledge in these spaces.
Speaker 2:So people that work in this area think a little bit differently, see things a little bit differently, and they're not. If they encounter any problems as they work with other groups, they're not going to just quickly pack up and go because of the way they've been trained, the way they think. So that is very, very important. And then, of course, like I said, we bring in other trained facilitators that work with us. Let's say, we wanted to facilitate a dialogue on a certain issue in a certain municipality or district. We bring those people and they help us do that, and then we have a lot of other tools that are available that we use to synthesize that information, pull it apart and then try to put together a map, a way forward.
Speaker 1:That's very, very important, having all those people come together. I think it would be remiss of me to not ask this question. Can you maybe give us an example of a success story? I know you said we can't direct people to the page, but just so that people can have a picture of practically what are some of the things that the food lab is actually doing.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, it's quite a lot, once more, putting me on the spot. Okay, one of the things that we've done is a food systems African food systems dialogue and what that does, and we've been doing this for the last five or so years. We went through COVID and that's one of the things that COVID didn't manage to kill. So it shows you that it's quite a resilient project for us. So we bring in experts to come and give a talk on a particular part of the food system that they are working in, particular part of the food system that they are working in, and then they share that with the audience. And then, of course, we're based at the University of Stellenbosch. Then the second day it's a two-day workshop.
Speaker 2:The second day they sit with the young people, the second day they sit with the young people and then they unpack that topic further and hearing views in particular of the young people and that dialogue, I think, has really done wonders. We have had some wonderful speakers. We have unpacked for us a number of complex issues in our food systems and we are in the process of putting together a book based on those. We have had people as high up as senior international civil servants working for the UN.
Speaker 2:We have had academics, we have had some activists, we have had people working in commercial food industry and so on and so forth. So that has been very exciting. And then we have had some facilitated guides trying to look at food security issues here in the Western Cape, in the Vusta area I'll again refer you to our website for more details on that. Some very good work there happening in some of the poorer township areas, trying to interrogate what's happening there. And also in KZN we have had some work with small farmers there Again trying to see what space do they occupy in the food system and what role do they play and what constraints do they face and how can they be directed to the right places.
Speaker 2:And there are a number of players in that group working in that group as well, together with NGOs, local government and academia, for example.
Speaker 2:So those are three examples that I will refer to you and for further details they will be on our website, and I think we're very excited about that. We haven't done more beyond the borders of South Africa. We're planning to engage with colleagues in SADC. There are a number of projects we've realized food systems projects that are within an arm of SADC called CADESA, which is the R&D wing of SADC, and we've engaged them and they're willing to come together and for us to start looking at the same food systems issues, not just here in South Africa, but in other countries as well.
Speaker 1:That's so impressive. That's really impressive the type of work that you do and, like you rightly said, we'll also attach the link so that people can check further information and the types of projects and it's really exciting that you are expanding the horizons and tapping into other places, particularly in Africa. We've seen the issue of climate change I'm sure it's a topic that comes up often and I'm sure even in your the food dialogues that happen and I wanted to ask you with this what are some of the biggest challenges or opportunities? You foresee that, for example, the work that you do could help in addressing food security in Southern Africa?
Speaker 2:Yeah, in fact, when I spoke about that project on pigs, I forgot to mention that one of the key for an animal that can utilize less of the food that is eaten by humans, for example, we wanted to give those pigs can eat more fibrous diets using, let's say, corn and corn meal, which then has implications on, obviously, climate change. So the less food that humans consume, the less of it that we give to animals, I think has implications on climate change as well, in terms of how much we have to produce for animals, how much we have to produce for humans, for humans, yeah, up to the whole food production system, where you continuously have to destroy natural vegetation to convert it into farmland. So the less we do that, the better, and so we were looking at production systems that favor converting natural vegetation into farmland, with the results the negative results of that are well known. I don't have to get into that. So a lot of the work that we do across the food system has implications on climate change and vice versa.
Speaker 2:In fact, we work very closely here at Stellenbosch University. One of the advantages of the food lab being situated here is that we also tap into the resources that are here and we also have a school of climate studies here at the University of Stellenbosch which is working in all aspects of climate change, and they act as a backup for us, giving us all the technical data in terms of how climate is changing around Southern Africa in particular and how that advisory can be used in terms of what's happening in the food system, starting from the production itself. So there is huge interrelationships between what we do and climate change and these two are very important topics going forward and that's why we are so engaged in that area.
Speaker 1:I like the fact again, that example of working with the climate the School of Climate Change, et cetera is another beautiful example of collaboration that the Food Lab does, and it's beautiful that it starts at an institutional level as well, which is very important. Prof, we've had a very rich conversation. We've spoken about various different things and I think it would be great to maybe just have a final golden nugget from you. You are well-ac, well accomplished in academia, and I wanted to ask you if you had any advice for somebody who's listening and they're a young researcher or a young professional who wants to work in this particular space and make an impact in food security and agriculture. What would you say to them?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's quite interesting that when I interact with young people of course I also teach here at Bristol University and other areas these topics are so exciting for them. They are so keen on getting into areas of food security, food systems, nutrition, climate change. But these are issues that we classify as being complex, and complex issues do not have a solution. That's by definition, and complex issues do not have a solution. That's by definition.
Speaker 2:And they are usually not very easy to deal with and, in particular, as we have discussed in this conversation, you deal with them from an interdisciplinary or transdisciplinary sort of approach.
Speaker 2:So what I would always say to young people, particularly those who are still studying at their undergraduate degrees, is don't abandon what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Interdisciplinary and transdisciplinary scholarship requires that you deepen your understanding of your disciplines. So deepen your understanding of what you're doing now. It helps when you get to postgraduate level and our university, for example, our faculty, for example offers degrees now at that level in interdisciplinary studies. For example, we have programs in food and nutrition security, we have a master's degree in sustainable agriculture and so on and so forth. So when you get to that level and you have a very good foundation, you are able to interrogate these complex problems. So that is really the advice that I give you cannot, at a very lower level, start trying to solve this or getting into these areas, because the complexity will just frustrate you and you might end up leaving. So deepen your disciplinary education and then, as you approach your master's, phds, you can start getting into these areas and then you can start to enjoy them, and I've seen a lot of youngsters do that and they are flourishing around here, and some of our students and youngsters that we've trained here all over the world working in global institutions.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Thank you so much for that piece of advice and I hope somebody really utilizes that, and also just thank you for your time. Thank you for coming on to the show and talking about the work that you do as a lab at the university, and I wish you all of the best in all of your other projects and all your other endeavors that you're involved in. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. And to everybody else who's tuned in, thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Ridge of the Suns podcast with your girl and with Anine. Until next time, goodbye.
