The Root Of The Science Podcast
*Disclaimer: The views expressed by the guests in the podcast episodes do not reflect my own*
The Root Of The Science Podcast
EP 158: The Role of African Podcasters in Science Communication
On this Africa Day podcast, five African science communicators discuss their role in amplifying authentic African research voices.
They explore how digital platforms are transforming science communication across the continent.
From immunology and plant science to scholarly communication and mentorship platforms, these podcasters share their journeys of creating digital spaces where authentic African scientific voices can thrive.
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Hello everyone and welcome to this very special Africa Day podcast brought to you by Mazungumzo African Scholarly Conversations and the Root of Science Podcast. Mazungumzo brings together an expansive list of African policymakers, science communication specialists, innovators and tertiary institution leads who contribute to this realm of science and scholarly communication. I'm your host, joy Owango, the Executive Director of the Training Center in Communication, a capacity-building trust based at the University of Nairobi Faculty of Science and Technology. Today we are celebrating the incredible voices leading the way in science communication across Africa.
Speaker 2:We are joined by inspiring podcast hosts and science communicators who are not only changing how research is shared, but also shaping the Africa we want, in line with the spirit of Agenda 2063. Thank you so much, joy. Hello everyone, my name is Anne Chisa, otherwise known as Anne Wefany. I am the host and the founder of the Root of the Science podcast. The aim is to amplify Africans in STEM across the globe. It's an honor to be here today because it is a very special podcast. I'm joined with Joy and also these amazing science communicators and science podcasters.
Speaker 2:Today we're going to have such a wonderful conversation as we explore this space of science communication in Africa, diving into some of the challenges and also understanding the dreams behind these powerful platforms that every single person here has created and what the future of African science communication could actually look like. But before we get into all of that, it's very important for us to understand who everyone else is here, so I'd like for our guests to introduce ourselves. We'll start with Wealth, we'll go to Anita and then we'll go to Ruth. Wealth over to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you very much, anne and Joy. I'm so excited to be here and blessed among women. Realize that I'm the only male podcaster here at the moment. So my name is Wealth Okete. I am a science podcaster. I host the Immunology in Africa podcast, short form ImmunoAfrica, and it's just a platform, as the name suggests, for amplifying and celebrating African immunology Immunology conducted by African scientists who are based in Africa or wherever they are in the world. Thank you.
Speaker 4:Thank you, joy. My name is Anita Makoi and I'm the host of my Science Journey, or what we call MSJ. Msj is a platform that bridges the science mentorship gap in Africa through the power of storytelling, and we do this by hosting bi-weekly sessions which feature senior scientists, africans who are working both on the continent and abroad, and the sessions are live streamed on the MSDA YouTube channel and recordings can also be accessed there. And in the sessions, the scientists share their science journeys, as the name suggests, and everything that has shaped their path as scientists, and our audience is majorly, but not limited to early career scientists, and they get to engage directly with the speakers but also follow up with them afterwards for mentorship and learning opportunities, and I'm so happy to be here, so thank you for the invite.
Speaker 5:Hey, and my name is Wambui Mbeche, the host of Farm to Table podcast, ke. It's a podcast where we talk about our food systems and everything that goes on in our food systems. Initially, I started it to teach people about farming because I am a plant scientist, but as I went on, I realized that there was a lot more that I could share, for example, just innovative things that were going on in the space within the African continent. And, yeah, the goal is really to share the innovative things that are going on with the aim of finding solutions and making a difference to our food systems. As I always say, we all need to eat, so our food systems are important to all of us. So, yeah, and I'm really happy to be a part of this panel and to share and to learn from the other incredible podcasters.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. So let's begin at the very start of your journey. When you first launched your platform, what gap were you trying to fill? What was missing in the science communication space that made you feel this needs to exist?
Speaker 3:So immunology. So that was the basic inspiration. So I took an interest in immunology as an undergraduate student. I schooled basic inspiration. So I took an interest in immunology as an undergraduate student. I schooled in Nigeria, although I'm currently in South Africa for my master's program. So during COVID-19, I think that was just like what provided the perfect time and fire for the idea to blossom.
Speaker 3:I realized that I was reading a lot of things about the virus and seeing that African scientists were making lots of contributions to the evolution of the pandemic and how that Africans were responding differently to the disease.
Speaker 3:But I didn't know so much of African scientists who were doing this amazing work. And also because the pandemic kind of just brought attention to the field of immunology and vaccines, so that kind of just provided the perfect landscape for the idea to be actualized or for me to explore that aspect of my interest. So I basically started the podcast because I wanted to learn about African scientists and their contributions in the field of knowledge. So it was first it was. It was first of all trying to meet um, a um kind of just um satisfy my own curiosity about african immunology research. And then I also knew that um, in satisfying that curiosity. There are several other persons who would benefit from. You know, understanding what was going on in the field of african immunology and connecting with scientists, and also celebrating um scientists who are advancing the frontiers of immunology research on the continent.
Speaker 1:OK, anita.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 4:So how my science journey started was it was actually our founder, ruth Nanjala, was leading an internship program in a research institution in Kenya, and the research institution has a four-month internship program where interns come and then they get turned on the practical skills in science and then they leave.
Speaker 4:But then she noticed, as the leader of this internship program, that it was great and the scientists were gaining the skills they needed, but after the four months they get released back and they don't have much guidance on the next steps in their career and they also have limited options on what they think are feasible options.
Speaker 4:So she knew that she was privileged because she had took advantage of and how they can also do that, and so what started as a program for interns in 2022 turned into my Science Journey. So in 2023, we then opened it up to as a platform open access platform to everyone and not just for the interns in the research institution, because we realized this was a need among young early career scientists in africa, who need mentorship and guidance on how careers in science look like, especially those that are away from the traditional way that we are used to seeing, and so that's how my science journey was developed and how. That's why we invite scientists to share, and so that's how my science journey was developed and how that's why we invite scientists to share their journeys not just what they work on, but also what made them who they are today okay take us through your journey.
Speaker 5:As I'm listening to the journeys, I'm just thinking about my own because I think I it sounds to me like everybody went into it very intentionally, looking to really make a difference. Well, for me, I feel it's a bit different. I've always been very passionate about our food systems and I knew that that's where I wanted to be, and at the time as I started, when I started my podcast, I was just trying to find my space within it. To be honest, I didn't intend it to be a science communication platform but, as I said, I am a plant scientist and I felt that I had all this knowledge that wasn't beneficial to anybody, and so I started it, initially really to teach people how to do farming. And then I remember, as I was doing research on you know, how can I do better? I found this platform that links farmers in Kenya with buyers. So the platform it's a digital platform and, again, it was also during COVID, and so it's a digital platform.
Speaker 5:That really came through at the time when, you know, things were closed down and everything, and that, I think, for me, was my aha moment, when I realized that I could amplify very diverse innovations that were going on, you know, and as wealth has said, my curiosity was also satisfied by doing the podcast, because as I went along, as I found that first guest, I then started to wonder who else is doing. You know innovative things that I could highlight, and especially in the food, in the field of food systems, because I feel like we all know that our food systems are really important and that there are major challenges, but nobody's really talking about about it in in any real way. So for me, it was a way for me to stay in my field, in which I'm very passionate about, and also, to you know, to kind of make a difference. So that's, that's my journey and, yeah, that's how it started.
Speaker 2:Wow, thanks so much, ruth and to everybody else hearing you all speak, you can hear that, although we have different platforms with different intentions, there's a wonderful, wonderful similarity of why we started these platforms, and I think the key thing is trying to make a difference, make some sort of impact, and also, like Ruth and I mean when we and Wealth mentioned that, it's usually to satisfy our own craving as scientists. So we are all available on all digital platforms almost, and we've seen, particularly during COVID, that digital platforms created a unique opportunity for African voices to be heard. So this question is to you, anita what unique advantage have you found that using? You mentioned YouTube as your chosen platform to amplify African research, rather than the traditional channels that everybody's used to?
Speaker 4:Thank you, anne. So I think, traditionally, and even while I was in school, and most of the science that we see, or science, is mostly communicated in very technical terms, in very technical ways and often within closed academic circles. So we have academic journals, which not everyone has access to, especially if you're not affiliated with an institution that has access to the paywalls governed by that. And then we have conferences that have very, very high registration fees that are very, very restrictive in how people get access to scientific advances or work that people are doing in science, the scientists themselves. So it creates that distance where the science feels inaccessible or even unattainable, and especially for early career scientists in Africa, who are a majority of our community. For my Science Journey and so for us, we use YouTube because it's very accessible, in that the smartphone coverage in Africa is very high and as long as you have a smartphone, you can access YouTube, because on our channel we don't have any paywall. I know there are some channels that do, but for our channel there's free access. And then we also, away from that, we use storytelling, and why I mentioned that is that we invite scientists to share their personal journeys, so not share their research, of course, but not just that, but how they started, the challenges they faced, the lessons they learned, the mistakes they made and then the turning points where they pivoted from one field of science to another.
Speaker 4:So we, technically, we humanize science and in this way we go beyond what is in academic journals or conferences. So, for example, when you open an academic paper on any scientific subject, you see an author list at the top. But that's all, that's all the humanness that is in that paper. So we're putting real faces and voices so that the next someone, someone, searches that name or a paper and they see that name, they're like oh yeah, I remember their journey, I remember their story, and so we do the stories behind the work. And I feel like that has a huge impact compared to traditional channels.
Speaker 4:Because when young scientists hear someone they admire or someone they've read in a paper and they know that they struggled with imposter syndrome, they know that they got rejected from their grant application sometime or they came from this university that they struggled with imposter syndrome.
Speaker 4:They know that they got rejected from their grant application sometime or they came from this university that they are also attending right now they see themselves in those stories, they start asking questions, they become curious about the work because now it matters to them, yeah, and also for the broader public then they're who are not necessarily in science. They also understand why this work matters, because this is a video that the scientists can even share with their family, who has never understood what work they actually do, so that it gives that communities, policymakers, funders and even family members a reason to care about the science and language, to advocate for it, so that when someone explains it now, they're able to explain what immunology is or what someone is doing in immunology, because they see the human side of it and they are more likely to support it.
Speaker 5:I think so, yeah, it's true, because science is very impersonal, you know, and, yeah, even as even as a scientist myself, anytime that any any um person me comes out in my science, even in my language, I really try to mute it and really stay back to the science. You know, and I I don't know if maybe I am responsible for the rest, because even for my students I really emphasize on you know scientific language. So, yeah, thank you for what you're doing, anita.
Speaker 1:And you know, when I critically look at what you're doing, anita, and even the platform you're using, the biggest challenge for most scientists has always been how do you communicate your work in a manner that a John Doe and a layman can understand? And that goes to the point of what tools do you use that that John Doe and layman can have access to? So that is an ingenious way of using YouTube. I mean, now, these days, people are also using TikTok and you have academic TikTok. You know to just use it for research capacity and you find that, using Anne's words when we first had our interview, focus on your targeted audience. Don't look at the big numbers. Who are the regular people who come to the YouTube channel, and those are the ones that you realize you're building an impact on, all right. So we've seen how African research can sometimes be filtered through non-African perspectives. How does your platform ensure authentic African voices and local contexts remain at the center of the research narratives you share?
Speaker 3:So, talking about local African context and talking about authenticity in Africa, I think I've just been very privileged that we've had guests on the podcast like majority virtually all of our guests who are very into the vision of the podcast and how it seems to amplify African voices and African perspectives.
Speaker 3:Because for my conversation with most of our guests there's always that recurring theme of the African context, the African context and you know, earlier on I talked about how that, you know, covid kind of just provided this perfect background for the podcast to take off, background for the podcast to take off. So, and we know, africans kind of responded quite differently to when the COVID-19 pandemic came out. But then I think there's also it was also quite a revelation for me that it's not only COVID that we are responding differently to, that. There are a host of other diseases that like this, this african context to different diseases, including vaccines. You know we've had a guest that talked that, you know, made us understand that, um, several vaccines that we use on the continent, because they are not made on the continent, they do not benefit people on the continent as much as they benefit people from the global north or other parts of the world. So all of these are just highlighting local context and highlighting local challenges and all these, I guess also talking and thinking about how they can adapt some of these global innovations to our local context. We've had a guest who is trying to come up with an innovative tool for quantifying HIV that doesn't depend on electricity. And because that's like the reality in Africa, how can we ensure that the tools we are developing, the diagnostics, the therapeutics and all of these innovations that are coming up in the field of science or in the field of immunology, are beneficial for the local man, beneficial to the local communities.
Speaker 3:So, and I think, away from the innovations and the tools themselves, the podcast has also been very, very committed to amplifying African perspectives, because we don't just ask our scientists about their work or their journey, we also get them to just comment on issues ongoing in the continent, to just see what do they think about the future of Africa? What do they think about the you know, the budding talent in the field of biomedical research and the field of immunology research and science, scientific research on the continent? What do they think about African government? What do they think about funding for scientific research? What are the challenges, the unique challenges that they face on the continent? What has it caused them to maybe leave the better systems in other countries? Some of them have even come down. Maybe they went to study abroad but then they decided to return to the continent. That's like a big sacrifice for them, but what has it cost them and what benefit or what inspired them to even come back? Because sometimes, when you think of people who maybe leave the US or they leave the UK and come back to Africa.
Speaker 3:People always want to think, okay, they are leaving something there, but some scientists decide to stay back because there's something in africa that is not in those institutions. You know, one of our guests mentioned that. You know people, there are questions like the problems are in africa. There are questions that can be solved here. Majority of the questions people are just trying to solve over there, like there are multiple persons solving them.
Speaker 3:But yeah, you get in africa, you can get a unique context, you can get a specific question that nobody else has ever asked, even as as noted, or anybody has even thought about before. Because this, they know, the research here is like largely there are so many questions that are like under explored. There are so many areas of science that are underexplored, so they are like multiple angles and multiple versions of a question or a project that you can tackle compared to you know other the world. So there are like so many. Those are like some of the ways that the podcast tries to amplify and give attention to local perspectives and local contexts. Yeah, it's quite a work.
Speaker 1:I mean, I like how you. I like your answer because it also takes me through our journey for Mazungumzo. When journey for Mazungumzo, when we started Mazungumzo, even as the tagline says African scholarly conversations we noted that those very limited conversations coming from Africa on high education and open science and scholarly communication, and that is what we focus on. And the more we interviewed people, the more we realized it's not even an issue of interviewing Africans who are on the continent, but Africans who are outside the continent making an impact globally, also on behalf of the continent. So raising these voices and creating this awareness on what we are doing in these areas made me realize there's a need to contextualize our conversations. There's a need to increase awareness on what we are doing as African researchers, african science communicators, in regards to the work we are doing on the continent. Yeah, I like that, I like you, I really like your answer about making everything contextualized to the African perspective. So over to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I like, I like what you both said. It also just makes me think of that, saying that, what finding, what finding solutions for African problems? And it goes further now, because then we get to amplify those, because the thing is that people are doing incredible research right here in Africa, but it's the amplifying that sort of gets, you know, disconnected, and I think we can all agree that is the main reason why we are doing all of this work, and I think it touches on that impact, because we we have five podcasts here already, but that probably does not even scratch the surface of some of the amazing things that people are doing here. And with that I want to bring you in, ruth, as we're speaking of impact, right, we can say we're creating impact. Yeah, congratulations, we're amplifying all of these amazing people.
Speaker 2:But the question is sustainability. We've all been doing this for very different times and off air, we spoke about how sometimes some podcasts don't last long. So, for you, what approaches have actually helped you keep your platform going and how have you navigated, reaching beyond, maybe academic realms to engage either policymakers or or, you know, the general public may also start with telling us when you started your podcast, the year, so that we can have that, uh, that picture as well right, um, so I started my podcast in 2021, in april 2021, so so April for me is now a really special month because I now have, like this baby yes, whose birthday?
Speaker 1:I celebrated.
Speaker 5:I get annoyed and, yeah, I mean the fact that I kept on going. It's honestly something that brings me a lot of pride. I feel a lot of pride because of the podcast and the fact that I've kept on going. Yeah, with impact.
Speaker 5:It's always difficult to measure impact because, you know, for us we're we're really speaking about such a macro issue like amplifying, you know, science with African science voices and you know it's it seems like a very untenable goal. You know a large goal but, um, for me I would say, with impact, it's more the smaller things. You know, for example, if I'm able to, so I I always just go back to the guests that I had on my podcast. So I had one guest who has a tech platform that registers local farmers, like dairy farmers or just small scale farmers, and because of the data plot, they give them a platform to basically just keep records and then, with these records, they are able to see the cash I mean the cash flow within their, their businesses, their small scale farming businesses, and with that, financial institutions can be able to now gauge how much money can we lend to these farmers. And you know, because a lot of african farming is quite informal and so financial institutions wouldn't touch that, you know. But with by amplifying a platform like that and bringing this platform to these local farmers and to see, honestly, even 10 farmers benefit from that, that's very tangible impact for me. So those are the things that I sort of cling on when I think about impact. Those are the things that I sort of cling on when I think about impact.
Speaker 5:So, sustaining, I would say for sustaining the platform, just the reminder of the goal, really, which is to you hold on to because it's a field that, um, I want to bring a difference to this field and therefore, you know, I have to keep on going, even when it's really tough, as the as the, as some of you know, it's been really tough for me. I've taken a very big higher task because of my PhD, but, um, yeah, I'm still holding on to it, I'm still putting in the work and, yeah, also, one thing that has also helped has been collaborating, because through collaboration, I'm able to still, you know, put my voice out there and about the podcast and about the work that I do, um, even when I'm not able to, for example, have I have an episode out every week or every month, right? So, staying in collaboration with other creators, with other even not just, uh, in science communication, but even with players, for example, with policymakers. Maybe somebody will reach out to me and ask me for a brief on this, because I have perspective to offer. So in staying in touch that way, it helps me to still, you know, have sustainability, even if it's not in terms of like the exact episode, if it's not in terms of like the exact episode, and so, yeah.
Speaker 5:So, to answer the final part of the question is how have I navigated beyond academic circles to engage policymakers and the general public? I would say collaboration is a big one, as I just said, because now I'm able to really cross-pollinate my work and then, yeah, just having staying in contact with the people that I work with and also just with the people that I do the podcast for. So I really like to, even in my own research now for my PhD, for any other projects that I do, I always encourage to stay in touch with who you're doing it for. So that's how I've been able to engage with circles beyond just academia.
Speaker 1:Anita, do you want to add anything before we go to Will?
Speaker 4:I don't think I have much to add. I'm actually learning from what one boy said, especially collaborating with other communicators, because I think what she mentioned about not being able to show up in the same way every time is very real, because at the end of the day, we are all human and life happens and for most of us, this is something we're doing out of passion and forget to make it our sole. So act so, um, honor our earning activity. So you find that life priorities take over and at some point you point even you have a creative block, because there's MLM creativity involved in this. And I think what really helps is what she mentioned about collaboration, and we've tried to do that at MSG as well, because we have away from the webinars, we also have articles we publish every week, and it's easy to write until you have to write every week because the weekend is very busy every week. And it's easy to write until you have to write every week because you notice my block
Speaker 1:I had a bit of a push, even when you are starting.
Speaker 4:Yes, until you have to write every week and very quickly. Yes, one of the things that I really really saved us was just doing an open call to people who are interested in contributing to the writing, and what we do is we attribute to you, so we put it on the mst platform, but we explicitly say this was authored by you and we link it to your platform if you have one or your own account, if it's on linkedin, and so it also helps to amplify your writing and if you need to demonstrate writing potential in other opportunities, then you have like a portfolio as well. So, yeah, I think collaborations are very important in different ways. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're talking about making a difference. So well, have there been ripple effects from your work or moments that made you feel this is actually making a difference, and how do you know when your platform is truly making a difference?
Speaker 3:Okay. So I think that's a bit of a difficult question because I'm looking at what Wambui just said Sometimes it's really difficult to measure impact.
Speaker 3:So yeah but I'm still looking forward to that big difference that I want. I want to make wow, but I, yeah, but I think for now, we're already making, um, some difference. I think, um, like when I started, like I was always looking to look at I was always looking at the listener demographics and I think, yeah, two, two years plus now we'll be three this year. I think I'm excited and proud that the podcast has been listened to in more than 60 countries so far and counting, and I think we are also trying our best. I think it's something that I'm very passionate and deliberate about. I keep reminding myself that this is an Immunology in Africa podcast, so we have to ensure that we are amplifying African voices and Africa has like 54 countries and we still have a long way to go, so that is something that would also mean like a tangible impact for us. But I think I've also been able to get feedback from a few persons, including guests, who say, okay, after the publish this episode, people reached out to them to just thank them for the perspective they shared for their journeys and, like it inspired so many persons, and some individuals have also reached out to me privately to just say, oh, thank you this episode.
Speaker 3:I listened to it and I learned this or learned a couple of things from the conversations that were had with the guests. So that is just like you know, sometimes when you put these things out there, people are listening. You're seeing the listener accounts, you are seeing the number of please, but you don't know. You don't know if anybody benefited, benefited from the questions you asked. But some of those few times have just been like a sort of encouragement to me and a way of me, to a way for me to know that, okay, I'm actually making an impact.
Speaker 3:It might be small scale and and like the people who reach out are probably, I like to just convince myself that people reach out to like tip of the iceberg, to the actual impact the podcast, the podcast is making. Yeah, but yeah, I think, uh, yeah, we keep going. And then I think recently someone told me that, um, one of the episodes that we had on the podcast was what actually inspired an article that she presented on um, doing some of those lab meetings and journal club. Because it was like, yeah, it was actually very interesting paper. Like I actually had to go back to read the paper in depth even after the guest share because I find it really interesting. But I think that was also like a discovery for me that, oh, people actually check out some of these articles that we post online and say this is an article that has been authored by a guest.
Speaker 3:So I think those are like some of the moments that I can just highlight and say, okay, these are like some of the moments that I can just highlight and say, okay, these are like, yeah, impact for us or some of maybe in quotes, ripple effects that the podcast is having across continent.
Speaker 5:can I? Can I say well, um, one of the things that you should say is like you're making a difference, because whenever I meet somebody that's working in immunology because now I'm currently in the university I'm always like you guys should speak to this guy who has a podcast on immunology. You should go and share your stories on the podcast, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think we are all guilty of checking our demographics every time to see okay how far and why.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, all guilty of checking our demographics every time to see, okay, how far, why, yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, no, that's so true. Yeah, yeah, I think it's it's. It's beautiful seeing that impact and I'm sure most of us have been doing this for so many years. And there are days where you don't even want to get onto that call and have that conversation, but then you get the feedback and somebody's like this was so engaging, like this was really great, and you're like, oh, my goodness, I thought that episode was horrible or something. So I think some of those things are those ripple effects and sometimes they're ripple effects that you need for yourself. Apart from it being about the community that we serve and just thinking about community. You know we look at the numbers. I used to be stuck on numbers, but I've told you that I've freed myself from that. I told Joy, really, that I have freed myself.
Speaker 1:I use it all the time.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I have also freed myself from the numbers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have freed myself from the numbers I have freed myself from um, from the numbers thing, and it's and it's. It's wonderful because, like like Joy said, I I honor the people who are there, honor the community, the people who always show up. Um. So, uh, anita, I want to ask you, when we, when you think of your community, that you've cultivated, how did you actually cultivate it? Like now, I think let's speak practically because somebody might be listening and they're like okay, I have a podcast, but I'm only having two people listen to my show. So how do you get 30 people, 50 people, to listen? Let's leave the 5 million, just those core 50 people who will come back. How does that happen?
Speaker 4:yeah, yeah, I think for us we have several ways actually, because one, when we started the platform, we're asking ourselves what would make me click on a link or go um every week, open youtube, open the youtube channel, to listen to your work. So we saw it from the perspective of our audience first, and so some of the ways we've done to build that community and ensure we have, like, a consistent following and a consistent audience who benefits from our content, is by so we have a mailing list where we, every time we advertise that we have a webinar coming up or another session coming up, we have a link where one can sign up to be on the mailing list and then you get a personal reminder like 30 minutes or an hour before, uh, because we do our sessions on youtube live and then once the live ends, the recording remains on the channel. So we remind people like every one hour or 30 minutes before the type starts. So that means like someone, because it's easy to forget that on friday every two weeks, we have this thing going on. So there's that. Then we also have a whatsapp community where we have, um, about over almost 200 members. So so we advertise it as well when we say we have a session coming up, we put a link to our mailing list, a link to our WhatsApp community, and it serves the same purpose of reminding me when a session comes up. But also, what I like about the WhatsApp community is we encourage conversation. So if someone has an opportunity, an internship, a job vacancy, something practical for the people, they have something they're gaining, not just to remind us about these sessions, but also they get opportunities on there that they may not see somewhere else.
Speaker 4:And then we newly launched an ambassador program, so we invited people to apply to become what we call MSJ ambassadors, and what these are is people from different parts of the continent, so we are hoping are is people from different parts of the continent, so we are hoping to get representatives from different parts of the continent who will then share the stories from our speakers. So, like, what did you get or what did you learn from the MSJ session, share it on your social media, just so people can know there's this thing that does this. And so we actually got more than 80 applications, so we had like a short application form. We are still going through them because they are all very convincing, or we can't pick everyone because when we advertised it, we incentivized it and our incentives meant if so, you choose whether you want to be connected to a previous, a past speaker for mentorship of, of course, with their consent.
Speaker 4:But also because we realize that many of our audience is early career, so they're looking to pursue grad school and we want to support them in their grad school application so that's one of the incentives and also support them in the application fee, if the applications they're making requires an application fee. Yeah. So then we feel like that creates a loyal community, because they feel like they are benefiting in terms of the information they get the scientific information, the mentorship, but also opportunities away from what they're currently doing. And also I mentioned the article writing club we have, where we invite people to submit articles for publishing on the msg platforms, and so I think all these ways make people feel like they are part of msg, like it's not just the msg team and them as listeners, but it's like msg is our thing, because they also get to feel part of the process, even though they are also the audience of our session. I think that has really been powerful in cultivating our community and growing our growing community.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's wonderful, oh my goodness yeah I.
Speaker 1:These are key things that are very implementable, um, and you can, I even want to be part of msj now like I'm learning a few things as well, so this is I like your approach, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I really, I really love that Omboy, you're each and also Ann, I mean Anita, you're each part of this growing movement of African science communicators. What do you see as the most significant challenge still limiting african research visibility, and what responsibility or opportunity do you feel comes with your role in increasing this? With power comes responsibility. Thanks, spider-man yeah.
Speaker 5:So, as I was thinking about this question, I wanted to say the obvious thing, which is money. But I've learned so we have a professor in our group who always says, if you had, when he's asking these kinds of questions, he says if you had all the money in the world, you know what challenges would you still have. So then, it's not the obvious, it's money and resources. I mean, obviously, money and resources is a big one because it takes capital to produce a good show and to do science communication and, as Anita mentioned, for most of us we're doing this as kind of a side project, whereas if we were able to do it full time, it would probably be, you know, we'd be able to give more. So, yeah, resources, I wish there would come up more resources and especially to cover um, scientific communication, because I feel like now, with lifestyle and you know those kinds of podcasts, they are getting more funding from, like the big platforms, but with more niche. The more niche the space is, the less the funding is, because you know our audiences will ultimately be smaller than, say, for example, a lifestyle, you know, podcast. So I would say one is resources and then um, what? What else would I say is a challenge is the lack of visibility. You know, I as we, as we're all speaking here, we all know that when we say scientific, um, research, it's to us africans, even to our fellow africans. To be honest, we don't always associate it with ourselves because, you know, we associate the knowledge with, you know, the out, the western world, or you know asia and all of that. So I would say, still the visibility, but you know, we are each doing our parts to, you know, rectify that by amplifying African voices. But, yeah, there's still a lot of visibility issues when it comes to African podcasts as a, you know, as a big challenge still. So, in terms of opportunities, I'm just going to borrow from what Anita said because I've really learned from her previous answer. Going to borrow from what Anita said because I've really learned from her previous answer.
Speaker 5:I think, even if we don't have the resources for example, money, I may not have enough money to pay somebody to, you know, work on my podcast, but I can see what else can I give to them as an incentive, you know, right, to incentivize their, their experience and their time so that they are also willing to come and and do it right, and then for the visibility. We are in the opportunity. Already we are doing it. We are amplifying um african voices, and there's also such a beauty in being the pioneers because we get to set the pace and we, you know, and we we get to set the conditions and all of that. So I feel like it's our opportunity and our responsibility to really set the pace for the people that will come after us when it comes to science, communication and all of that. So, yeah, that's what I would say.
Speaker 1:Yep. And as we are about to wind up, I have a question for you, wealth, and also for you, anita. So, wealth, imagine African science podcasting in 10 years. What would you love it to look like? So think through that. And, anita, what's one change you'd love to see for the next generation of science communicators? So well, let's begin with you.
Speaker 3:Okay, african science podcasting in 10 years. Well, I think one thing I love about the current landscape of science podcasting in Africa is we are growing. I think it's very equipment and resources, but we are growing and I think that's and there's so much potential in that trajectory of good. And I think, just to be more specific, um, things I would love to see um in as african science podcasting in within the next decade would be. I think it would make a lot, it would make more sense if you know there is more collaboration, like, let me not just collaboration, but I think maybe a kind of immersion of the science podcasting landscape into science education on the continent. That you know we have people in university like you know we have, like Mazumun I'm sorry, I'm not sure how to pronounce it Mazumunzo, mazumunzo, yeah right, that's already looking at.
Speaker 3:You know, scholarly conversation to scientists. That you know a scientist can tell their students to go listen to Ancisa's podcast, you know. Listen to this episode. It addresses this disease, addresses it. And then students can listen to podcast episodes and maybe write up, maybe kind of do a kind of critical analysis on it, or maybe compare different podcast episodes and maybe write up, maybe kind of do a kind of critical analysis on it or maybe compare different podcast episodes and get ideas from them. So I think, because I listen to some of the episodes maybe not listen, but the conversations I have with my guests I also listen to some other podcasts and they are just so rich with conversations like scientists have so much to share that they cannot share on journal articles and there's just so much to share that they cannot share.
Speaker 3:on journal articles and there's just so much, so so much, that these people know. I listen to my guests, speak to them and I'm like, wow, you guys, you just know so much. And so I think there just has to be that. You know, the university community, the higher education community just has to see that value in podcasting and I think even as podcasters, we also have to be thinking in that, along those lines, so that that could also guide how we shape our conversations, the kind of questions we ask. So that's something I'm really looking forward to, you know, collaboration with the educational sector. And then I'm also looking at our podcast conversation being able to shape policies. You know, we have conversations in our podcast. I believe Anne does, and you know, and Wanbiu does and Anita does.
Speaker 3:There's always this conversation about research on the continent and the challenges that our scientists are going through, and let our government officials be able to listen to this podcast and decide to say, oh, I listen to Anne's podcast and I'm seeing what some of these amazing scientists are doing. We scientists are doing. We want to effect this change in, you know, in our funding structure, or want to, you know, create more opportunities for this category of scientists. And I think, um, maybe the last thing I would just mention would be support and structure. Um, um, like, maybe call up um podcast starts collaborating together to build that structure like um one. You just said that we are those who have started, or was it? And like we've started, you know we've, we've started the journey already and we get to set the pace and I think we also get to build the structure for the podcasting landscape and decide what science podcasting on the continent should be like and just set those standards. So those are the things I look forward to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks can I add um onto what you well said? Um, I actually love what you said about the idea of taking our episodes and really looking at them in a more critical, academic way. But I also think the thing also now we as creators need to see the work that we're doing. We need to maybe not be so meek about it and maybe be like, oh, it's just a passion project, but really understand that we're creating really important work. Um, we and although it might not be the the traditional way that we, we, we think of science, but we are setting that pace and I think then it really the onus is also on us that we see the value um in what we do.
Speaker 2:So even when somebody says to you, oh no, you're just doing a podcast, no, no, no, um, you know, because sometimes, oh, it's just, it's just it's, it's not just a fun thing, it's very important. You have really nuanced conversations with experts, experts in the field, and not everybody gets to have that conversation. So I think we as creators also need to position ourselves and really start to think of ourselves as authorities in our space and from there, then maybe we can also then stand more confidently and go to and say, hey, I have a podcast. I speak to immunologists. Let me go to an immunology department. This is what I do, I think, professor, so-and-so, listen to a few of these episodes. It actually touches on your work. I had this expert from Cambridge and he's African, which is also great. So really go in there and walk into the spaces, because sometimes it's also about how we view, how we, the things that we put out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah. So, anita, what's the one change you'd love to see for the next generation of science communicators?
Speaker 4:I would say that's a very big one, and the fact that it has to be one change. I want to say there are many changes, but the one change I would want to maybe highlight that is relevant to the work we do at my Science Journey is diversifying how we communicate with our audience. In is so science can be spoken in technical language within scientists right. But for it to matter to people outside of science, and especially where the resources are, that is, policymakers, funders, investors, the community then it has to connect with them. So we have to learn how to frame our message in a way that makes sense to them.
Speaker 4:I usually say that facts tell, but stories sell. So people usually remember the story, the human aspect of it, more than the technical aspect, especially if they are not scientists by background training. And what I mean is it's not about simplifying the science, the point of it losing meaning, but translating it so that people can see why it matters, how it impacts, how it impacts their life and why they should care in the first place. I think a superpower that every science communicator needs is that the ability to adapt your message without compromising accuracy or scientific yes, yeah thank you, without compromising the integrity of the context of your, of your research.
Speaker 5:Would you?
Speaker 5:like to add anything to this, yeah, just without compromising the, the integrity of the science, because science is quite complex. So I have this, I, I I read this message that said if you're ever torn between um, simplicity and what what was it? I think it was, it was around that if you have to choose between making it simple and making it um, yeah, then you should, it should lean more on the, on clarity. Yeah, right, because I think we also don't give um as scientists. I want to really speak as a scientist here. We don't give laymen a chance to understand. You know, we're just like, no, no, it's too complicated. But yeah, I think we should stop patronizing we also have?
Speaker 5:yes, we do. We should stop patronizing them and actually give them the information indigestible, you know indigestible pieces, because there's always a way to communicate it. And if you can't communicate it, then why are you doing it?
Speaker 1:that's true, and thank you all so much for sharing your journeys, your ideas and your dreams with us today. You're building the future of how African science is seen, heard and valued To everyone listening. We encourage you to follow, support and amplify the amazing work being done by our African science communicators. Happy Africa Day. Thank you all of you. Thank you all of you. Bye.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Bye Thank you Peace here.
