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The Root Of The Science Podcast
*Disclaimer: The views expressed by the guests in the podcast episodes do not reflect my own*
The Root Of The Science Podcast
EP 161: Dr. Tebogo Makhubela, From Soweto to National Geographic, Tracing Human Origins
What if the ground beneath your feet could tell you exactly when our ancestors walked the Earth?
Dr. Tebogo Makhubela, a geologist from Soweto and a recent National Geographic Wayfinder Award winner, followed his scientific passion and is now uncovering these ancient stories as a National Geographic Explorer.
This conversation takes us from when he bravely chose geology without financial backing despite pressure to pursue more conventional careers, to his work dating fossils at South Africa's Cradle of Humankind.
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But, more importantly, I also get access to opportunities within the community, opportunities to engage with explorers globally in different events, Like I just did last week, you know, at the National Geographic Explorers Festival, which is an annual event in Washington DC, where explorers come from all over the world and we are in one place for a week.
Speaker 1:We enjoy a range of workshops and symposiums, and I was speaking at the Explorers Fest. And for me to speak at the Explorers Fest, I had to be trained, you know, on how to speak to such a diverse audience and how to speak with authority and so well. So there's that training that comes with this opportunity, right. But also I get access to resources. So, for example, the National Geographic community has a resource where you can get equipment loaned to you, Different types of equipment, different types of cameras, for example, underwater cameras which I can just complete a request online and they will ship it to me anywhere in the world. Imagine that, on loan for however period I want, of course within reason, I mean not three years, for example, but maybe three months right, for a particular project. So there's that, but also the fact that I can now receive mapping resources to make maps of different kinds with very high resolution data.
Speaker 2:You know which many geographers or remote sensing specialists might know hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the root of the science podcast. I'm your girl and with any. If you watching on YouTube, remember to hit the subscribe button and remember to share this podcast wide. If you're listening on audio, remember to hit follow and leave us a comment in the comment box on what you think of this particular episode. So at the cradle of humankind in South Africa, it holds fossils and artifacts that reveal how early humans evolved, migrated and adapted. By analyzing bones, tools and environmental data, scientists trace physical changes, cognitive developments and the rise of complex behaviors. These findings help explain the roots of human diversity and how ancient innovations shaped survival Today.
Speaker 2:In this episode, we are joined by Dr Teboho Mankobela, a geologist, a geochemist and a newly named National Geographic Explorer. He is based in South Africa and his work focuses on dating ancient fossils to uncover the story of our human ancestors. He is the field director and also the PI with the Rising Star program and has played a key role in some of the discoveries within the cradle of humankind. In this episode, teboho walks us through the beginning, how he got into the field of geology. He talks us through about some of the work and the research that he's involved in. And, most importantly, he also tells us about this National Geography Explorer Award that he is a recipient and what that means, as well as the impact Tune in to all of this and so much more. Let's go. Hi Teboho, welcome to the show, hi.
Speaker 1:Anne, thank you. Thank you very much for having me. It is a pleasure to be with the Root of Science.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean we spoke off air that we've been seeing each other on social medias, but it's really amazing that we get to have this conversation one-on-one and at a very auspicious and very special occasion. Congratulations on your award once again.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you very much. It is a very, you know, prestigious honor that I would have just received. I'm one of the very few wayfinder awardees in South Africa, but also globally, of course, so it is a prestigious honor that I appreciate very much. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Sure, so we're going to get more into that conversation just now, but for the purpose of this intro, I think for our guests who might not know you, could you just briefly introduce yourself. Who is Tebohor? Where are you from, where are you based and just what do you actually do?
Speaker 1:Sure Well, tebohor Makubela is a Soweto born and raised academic now working at the Investor of Johannesburg. In fact, uej has been my home ever since first year. So after completing my schooling in the secondary school Vwani Secondary School in Soweto, I went to UJ for my first year in geology, and I just never left, you know. So I did undergraduate, honors, masters, PhD there. I became a member of staff in the Department of Geology and in addition to being a geologist at UGA, I am now also a National Geographic Explorer.
Speaker 2:Lovely, I love that last line. So, teboho, let's take it back, back, back, back back. You just said you're born and raised in Soweto. How does a young Soweto boy get into geology, Like, is this something that you always knew, or was it by accident? Like, take this something that you always knew, or was it by accident? Like, take us to that starting point.
Speaker 1:Right, very good question. And you know so I stumbled onto geology when I was in grade 11. And you know, I was flirting with it. I really was.
Speaker 2:Okay, you know I was flirting with it.
Speaker 1:I really was. Of course, I did not want to appreciate it and commit to it, because my background, which you might relate to and many will, I know, is that you know for us, as a first generation university goer, what you study when you get to the university matters. And, of course, course, you know our parents and our families will say, hey, you must do. You know either things like accounting or engineering, like the famous ones, that they know that they've seen other people making it in those fields. You know because, as a first-time university goer, you need to be a success for your family, you need to change things for your family, and so there was that aspect to it whereby I did not want to admit that I'm attracted to this field of science that no one knows about, but I've discovered.
Speaker 1:It was only in January 2009, when now it was time to register. I had no bursary at all for geology, but I had three bursaries. All three were for engineering, mining engineering, chemical engineering you know all three bursaries. But I was talking to a friend of mine whom we had just completed metric together and we had both done so well, and she told me that she has decided she is going to study, mine surveying, despite what everyone else is saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And she gave me the courage to want to go for geology, and I did, you know, without any financial backing. And so my first year was very tough from the aspect that I had no funding. I was funded by NSFAS, which any financial backing, and so my first year was very tough from the aspect that I had no funding. I was funded by NSFAS, which I'm grateful for, and it worked out because I did well and then second day I got a bursary to fund me. So it was a strange field of science. I knew nothing about it, but I was very attracted to it and once I started it, I can tell you now from the very first lecture cosmology and the birth of earth.
Speaker 1:I knew I was right, then then oh, what a beautiful story to walk.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's amazing. It literally gave me goosebumps, because now, when we think, when we, when we're speaking about this, now like um, because we are speaking, because you won that award and you started with saying that people didn't even know what geology was, but now people know national geographic, they're like ah, now we know. So it's like it's pretty amazing that, like you started and you're so brave to do so, not many are, and I hope maybe somebody else who's listening to this, especially a young person, is like okay, let me be as brave as Tavoko, because you never know where you'll end up, right?
Speaker 1:True, yes, you know. Yes, good point, because, as someone who has been working in the university now for a few years over a decade over the years I've seen many students who start studying something else and then end up either in geology or they start with geology after the first semester. They end up elsewhere, you know, in a different field, and one of them, we've become very good friends. I was still a tutor when she started geology first year and after the first semester she changed, she went and she did human resources and now she's living a thriving career, you know, in human capital management, and she enjoys that because she loves working with people and empowering people from a different perspective, more intimately and personally. You know, course, spent the first semester and then spent second semester of that first year not doing anything because she had to change courses, you know. But yes, so I was lucky that I was brave enough to go for exactly what I wanted and it worked out for me yes, lovely, amazing.
Speaker 2:So let's go back to this award um. What does the award actually um mean to you? Um, especially on at a personal level and even at a professional level? And maybe, while you're answering that, could you maybe just give us an overview what this um award actually is for those who are like, okay, you keep talking about this award, but what is it?
Speaker 1:well, the Wayfinder Award means the world to me you know, and I don't say that lightly it really means the world, because the Wayfinder Award, firstly, has made me become a National Geographic Explorer explorer, which means I have now joined a global community of explorers from all parts of life, of life and all parts of the world, and by that I mean some of the islands which you probably have never heard of. You know the explorers who are based in Polynesian islands. You know Cook Islands, for example, at the end of the world. You know when we think about it. To get there probably takes like three to four days just to get there, and I'm now in the same community with them and I now enjoy a lot of resources and opportunities with them. You know award-winning explorers, might I add. You know award-winning explorers, might I add. You know people who have won oscars, mind you. Wow, you know, because the national geographic community is not just for scientists, but it also includes storytellers, some of the best photographers in the world, some of the best filmmakers in the world. You know some of the best filmmakers in the world, some of the best leaders in conservation, national Geographic Explorers. They are now my colleagues as part of this global community.
Speaker 1:Together with them, we have access to funding, funding that I could only dream of. The award on its own already comes with a $50,000 prize to me that I can use, you know, to further my work. But in addition to that, already I have the opportunity to apply for an additional $100,000 right now, this year, you know, which means there's a great chance. At the end of this year I would have accumulated 150,000 US dollars. I don't have to tell you how much that is in rents. It goes a long way, you know. So that means my work is not going to have any further challenges as far as things that need funding, you know. I'll be able to fund more graduate students to work with. I'll be able to discover undergraduate students and help them throughout the university, progress undergraduate and then early post-grad into post-grad. Those, of course, were interested in becoming scientists, you know.
Speaker 1:But more importantly, I also get access to opportunities within the community, opportunities to engage with explorers globally in different events, like I just did last week, you know, at the National Geographic Explorers Festival, which is an annual event in Washington DC, where explorers come from all over the world and we are in one place for a week. We enjoy a range of workshops and symposiums, and I was speaking at the Explorers Fest. And for me to speak at the Explorers Fest, I had to be trained, you know, on how to speak to such a diverse audience and how to speak with authority and so well. So there's that training that comes with this opportunity, right. But also I get access to resources. So, for example, the National Geographic Community has a resource where you can get equipment loaned to you different types of equipment, different types of cameras, for example, underwater cameras which I can just complete a request online and they will ship it to me anywhere in the world. Imagine that on loan for however period I want, of course, within reason, I mean not three years, for example, but maybe three months, right, for a particular project.
Speaker 1:So there's that, but also the fact that I can now receive mapping resources to make maps of different kinds with very high resolution data. You know which many geographers or remote sensing specialists might know the basic data that you need to use to make a map. I get access to that now you know, easily, and I can get people to work with or making different types of maps, and these are just examples of the different types of resources that I now have access to. You know. So if my institution cannot afford to pay, for example, for ArcGIS with ESRI, I don't have to worry. I already get that through National Geographic Explorers Community. These are examples of what it means to be awarded the Wayfinder but to also become an Asia Geographic Explorer.
Speaker 2:What a rich and full package personally and also very professionally, and I love the fact that it's not only going to empower you, but what you mentioned, that you can empower the up-and-coming scientists from first year, because we all know that research needs funding and the main cause and the main case, especially for many of us in the developing country, is the issue of funding, and I'm so happy to hear that because you won this award and because you are exposed to all of these very many wonderful resources um, more young Teboko's and the simple things that can be boy or girl, um can follow in your exactly in your footsteps.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. So let's talk more about about your work that got you this honor. So, for some of us who are unfamiliar with your field, please explain what geochronology is and how it helps us understand human evolution. Sure.
Speaker 1:Sure. So geochronology is a branch of geology, geology being the study of the earth, the earth's process and the products of the earth's processes. So things like the rocks and the minerals. And I don't have to talk about the importance of the rocks and the minerals, I think we all know that, because the rocks will give us the soil and the soil give us the food we eat, you know. And then the minerals will give us the platinum, the gold, the diamonds Well, you're a lady, I don't have to tell you about the diamond, you know. So that's the earth and its processes. But then geochronology is the science of telling the time with regards to the earth's age and the earth's processes and the earth's products, you know. So, for example, when a particular volcano erupted, you know. We can determine that time, even when it happened before the time of humans on earth, say, maybe one million years ago or five million years ago. Geochronology helps us determine the time or when a particular rock was formed. That's when geochronology comes in and how geochronology works.
Speaker 1:Well, we use isotopes. These isotopes are like twins or triplets, for example, for elements. Let me use carbon as an example. Carbon has three isotopes. Two of those isotopes are like twins. So we have carbon 12 and carbon 13. They're naturally occurring, so they are formed naturally on earth, and they are formed in different quantities. So what we refer to as abundances, you know, and because of those abundances we are able to compare them relative to each other and understand certain aspects or characteristics of different products or processes. You know, with regards to plants and animals, because carbon is mainly found in organic materials, which plants are, right.
Speaker 1:But then there is a third isotope of carbon, which is carbon-14. It is not naturally occurring, it is formed on the Earth's planet or Earth's surface, rather, by a process called cosmogenic production, whereby we have cosmic rays that are coming into the Earth's atmosphere from either the sun, which are the solar cosmic rays, or from the outside our solar system, which are the galactic cosmic rays. So when they enter our atmosphere they emit atoms of other elements, all sorts of elements, nitrogen for example, in the atmosphere, but also on the Earth's surface, in rocks, but also in plants, right. And then they impact those atoms and they facilitate the formation of a new isotope. In this case you have nitrogen being converted into carbon-14, right. And then you form this commonly known isotope of carbon, known as radiocarbon, because it is radioactive. It is not stable like carbon-12 and carbon-13. Over time it decays and changes form spontaneously, you know, and interestingly it changes form back into nitrogen-14.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:And so, because of that radioactive characteristic it has you know, because we know how long it takes for a carbon-14 atom to convert to a nitrogen-14 atom, right, it has a half-life of 5,300 years. Because of that half-life. We are able to then use that to tell time.
Speaker 1:What I mean is that if we take a material, say a piece of wood, because wood is carbon, and then we look at, okay, it has so much carbon-12, it has so much carbon-13, and it has so much carbon-14, right, depending on the amount of carbon-14, we are able to say, okay, for this wood to have this amount of carbon-14, when would it have been formed? Well, because we know the rate of formation of carbon-14, you know, in wood on the Earth's surface, we will say, okay, it is like you may say one million atoms of carbon-14.
Speaker 1:To form one million atoms at a rate of and I'm making it up now at a rate of, well, 10 atoms per year, how much time would it take to form one million? We get a certain number in years and we say, ok, but for this is the age of this piece of wood, right, and that's how we are able to date trees, for example, and then we can relate that to time of when it formed. And that's how geochorology works, in a sort of like simplified manner, using carbon-14 and radiocarbon dating, so-called carbon-14 dating. But of course I use different types of cosmogenic nuclides. In my case I use beryllium-10 and aluminum-26. They are both not formed on the earth by natural processes.
Speaker 1:They are formed by cosmic rays, and so when I find them, I know they were formed by this process and so I can use them to tell the age of things that are on the surface, but also things that have been buried, you know, and so I can tell the age of buried fossils indirectly, you know to say okay, well, since these fossils are buried with these sediments and these sediments have got quartz, which is the common rock-forming mineral, that was formed, say, for human sake, 1.5 million years ago, therefore these fossils are this age 1.5 million years ago.
Speaker 2:Therefore, these fossils are this age. Wow, that is so fascinating. And it's quite amazing how all these different factors the sun, the soil are able to really tell us a story of time and how things have evolved. That's super interesting. I get why you stayed. This is interesting. I was just you stayed. This is interesting.
Speaker 1:I was just saying. That is the beauty of science. You know. There is the chemistry aspect of it, there is the physics aspect of it, Of course the mathematics, and then the earth science, the geology, but of course the biology of it. You know, because to understand how carbon-14 is formed in plants, you need to understand the processes of those plants you know, and that is science yeah, it's all coming together as one.
Speaker 2:So in your work you are the field director for the rising star program, which explores the cradle of humankind right here in South Africa. So, given this context of what you've explained, what your work, what your work that you've done, I wanted to know what has been some of the most important moments or other discoveries that you've actually been on. I'm sure there's been some really exciting things. Tell us about that part.
Speaker 1:Sure, yes. So more specifically, I am the principal investigator, so I'm the director of the geology right. So not the overall science, because for our program, which is the rising right now, is still called the Rising Star Program, professor Lee Berger is sort of the overall director of that program because, you know, there is the archaeology aspect for it, there is the paleoanthropology.
Speaker 1:You know I'm leading the geology aspect of it in all its form, you know, and so I joined this program about 12 years ago when I was still a PhD student, and over the years I have then advanced to become the makulu boss for the geology you know, the PI for the geology in all the sites where we work, and so some of my contributions to all the discoveries goes back all the way to the beginning. Goes back all the way to the beginning. But more recently, you know, we've made discoveries related to evidence of potential motel practices by humanality as a species. You know evidence related to other hominid fossils which we have not yet announced, you know, in other related sites within the cradle, but also studies of evidence that help us understand the world when Homo naledi was living in, and by that I mean the paleoclimate so ancient of the past and the environment and ecology of the past. I'm talking over the past 300,000 years because there is one site which is a tufa site, tufa being a rock that is formed by fresh water on the earth's surface and I have a PhD student who just completed and we were studying this tufa deposit and we've discovered that this tufa site is 299,000 years old. Wow, and this is a major find.
Speaker 1:Wow, because tufa, it consists of a lot of plants, you know, that are incorporated in it and fossilized.
Speaker 1:I mean excellent preservation of plants, you know, whereby we are able to study plants in the rock record and compare with plants that are still on the landscape today to see if those plants are still on the landscape or not, you know, which is important for understanding the changes that have happened.
Speaker 1:But, more importantly, the inorganic fraction, you know, the calcium carbonate fraction of tufa tells us a lot about the stable carbon and oxygen isotope, which tell us what were the atmospheric conditions, what was the temperature. You know, 300,000 years ago, 240,000 years ago, you know, 200,000 years ago, right, and the importance of this is the fact that in the time period I've just mentioned, humanality was living. We know this. But in addition, our own species, homo sapiens, was emerging on the African continent. In North Africa we've got fossils of Homo sapiens, archaic Homo sapiens, and here in Southern Africa, in places like Blombos Border Cave, we've got evidence of Homo sapiens doing different forms of archaeological activities. You know, and now we'll be able to understand clearly the atmospheric conditions under which they were doing it. When there was a drought, you know, when it was very wet and how that could have affected their lives, you know.
Speaker 2:So these are some of the evidences um, so yeah I am just mind blown sorry, I'm still processing that you can find all of this information from rocks. It literally blows my mind. So, okay, I don't want to say it's a stupid question, but I have a question. So when you look at, when you have some of these findings let's say you look at the types of temperatures you look at maybe some of these natural occurring things like drought, et cetera does this maybe then help us paint a picture of some of the things that we can expect with potential climate change, et cetera? How does? Yeah, could you? I'm assuming it should, so could you explain a little bit further for us?
Speaker 1:Yes, happy to. So very good question. Let me start there. So here's one thing you need to know about the earth. Let me stop there. So here's one thing you need to know about the earth. The processes we observe today are not new. They're not starting today.
Speaker 1:They have been happening in the entire history of earth, and that history we know it to be 4,500 million years old. You know, the earth is 4.5 billion years, if you want me to put it using different units, right, and so there's a lot of these processes that have been recurring. You know, and we often see that there is a sequence to these processes or events, right, whereby one event leads to another, you know, and so the rocks are a very good memory. They're a memory book of Earth, you know, because rocks have been formed throughout the history of Earth, so they've been recording different events. We know this. That's why we are able to find the fossils of animals and hominids, our ancestors, that have lived well, two million years ago, three million years ago.
Speaker 1:We find them in the rocks because the rocks have taken a snapshot of that time and preserved it all right. So we find all sorts of information about the earth in rocks, and so, by studying the right rocks, we are able to see okay, this event happened maybe three times over the last million years, you know, and this event was associated with this and this, and that you know. So, for example, we are able to see that, okay, so, for example, we are able to see that, okay, drought periods were maybe preceded by a particular climate or succeeded by a particular climate, and that then helps us understand how we can predict the future. Because we are predicting the future based on a sequence of historical events you know that we have enough information about, not just in terms of time, but especially as well in terms of place. You know to say, okay, in this place, this is what happened in this scenario, therefore, in the same place, when we see that happening again, we can easily understand what to expect, and that's how it helps help us with that.
Speaker 2:That is so fascinating and such important information. This also just makes me think, then, that I think it's important for us, as scientists, to work together because, let's say, for example, I'm in crops right to do agriculture and I'm working a lot in terms of drought and the expectations of the impacts of drought currently, but now, speaking to you and understanding this chronology of time and it makes us more aware of some of these patterns that we are seeing and maybe can also help us better advise people on how we can better adapt, given that we have this information. So such phenomenal work, brilliant. I'm learning a lot. It makes me so excited and I hope even some of our listeners are also like, wow, this is pretty, pretty interesting.
Speaker 2:Te Waho, as we are chatting and as we're wrapping up, there's something that has to be said. You are an African. You know, and you work in the space that, in the past, was maybe not so predominantly filled with people who are African and who look like you and I. So you said that you've been doing this for the past 12 years, and even before that, when you started as a first-year student. So what role do you think an African scientist like yourself plays in reshaping this narrative of this field that you're actually in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's another brilliant question. You are right, you know the field of geology, for example at a research level was not transformed in the past.
Speaker 1:You know, in the South African context it was likely dominated, you know, by non-natives. But also, more specifically, the field of geochemistry and geochronology in the context of human evolution was also not transformed, in the sense that a lot of the science was done by scientists from abroad who would come in, do what is known as parachute science and then they would sample, do a field work for like a week or two or a month, and then live with fossils and do all the work abroad.
Speaker 1:You know, Whereas nowadays, scientists like myself, like my colleague, fellow National Geographic Explorer, Dr Kinele Molukwiane you know who is an archaeologist what we are now doing is that we are based in South Africa, in South African institutions, we do fieldwork throughout the whole year and we mentor and educate students, we inspire them to become part of the human evolution sciences.
Speaker 1:So that's how we are changing the field, but, more importantly, we are changing the field, but, more importantly, we are involved and participating in the greater understanding of, well, firstly, understanding the rich diversity and preservation of fossils right in our backyard. You know, so we are taking initiative, you know, to lead a science of understanding what the region where we live has been blessed with. So there's that aspect. But also we are contributing by adding African voices to, well, the discipline, you know, the science of human evolution, which is very important because, well, it is a very important voice you know, to add to the discourse of understanding where all humanity comes from, especially because all humanity started in Africa, you know, before the spread of our species to air globally. You know, so it is. It plays a very important role in not just today but also securing future scientists to continue the work as well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And another important thing is that you are a visible role model. I told you off air that I saw you on the super scientist card and, just as a little backstory, I do a lot of work with young students at schools and I give away some of those cards, so it's really great that now somebody can see you and they can identify and even work with you, like from seeing you on a card at, like, primary school or high school level.
Speaker 2:They can come to University of Joburg and work with Dr Teboho and you know, and you're part of this.
Speaker 2:So I think, like you rightfully said, it's such an important voice that needs to be in the space, and thank you for being in this space and thank you for trusting yourself and being brave enough to enter into this field, because I'm sure it wasn't easy. Like you said, you didn't know what you were doing, what you were getting yourself into. But here you are, right now you're mentoring other people and, because of the accolades that you're getting now, you're also going to be able to lift people. So I commend you and I now you're also going to be able to lift people. So I commend you and I'm so grateful that you are part of this conversation, um, and you're part of this really, really amazing work, because more of us and more Africans need to be in this space. So, yeah, kudos to you. It's it's, it's a it's a pleasure, um having this conversation and, um knowing that there are people like yourself and your colleagues who are part of this field.
Speaker 1:So well, thank you very much you're welcome.
Speaker 2:So final question, as we're speaking about empowering young people and empowering young scientists. So what advice would you give to someone who aspires to get into this space but they don't quite know how to um, so that they can be where you are, hopefully one day?
Speaker 1:sure. Well, that's a very important and very good question. So, you know, the first advice I would give is that fall in love with the science for its beauty, because science is very empowering, it is really very fulfilling. I say that because you know science helps you understand the world you live in. Um, you know from the basic things. So, for example, I am able to understand a lot of things that happen in the kitchen just because of my very good grounding in chemistry. You know, because there's no chemistry to that, but also physics. You know, to understand why certain things cook faster than others. It has to do with the chemistry and the physics of it. You know, even though I'm not practicing in those fields. It helps me as a person, empowers me at a personal level, right, um, but as a geologist understanding the world that I live in from you know, a climatic perspective or a geographic or global perspective. It does so much for me. But beyond that, you know, science has given us everything we know today.
Speaker 1:You know all of science has contributed to the life we enjoy today and will continue to do so, and therefore we need more scientists.
Speaker 1:And those scientists need to be curious and passionate about learning more about the earth, but about life forms, life processes and all that. And the best way to get into it is, of course, while still at school. You make sure that you commit to understanding the basics that are taught at high school physical sciences and then the mathematics. That is the setting point, and once you narrow that down, then investigate what type of science would you like to see yourself specialize in? Because then it will be easier to start seeking out role models like myself for those who are interested in learning more about the earth or working with the earth processes. Then they can start looking up people like myself and start looking up institutions, you know, that offer opportunities and additional information, and so it makes it easier to have a clear mind and approach to the science that you are mostly interested in and how to succeed once you're there, you know, without any particular blind spots that may catch you later on. Those are my advices to young people who are interested in science.
Speaker 2:Such great advice and I hope somebody really does take it up and, like they said, hopefully they can be like. I heard you on the Root of the Science podcast and I'm here.
Speaker 1:I hope so too.
Speaker 2:Or even later on they'll say maybe we heard this episode. I'm now a national geographer because of that wonderful conversation with Tebo Hoid, or it takes that one little seed right.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, imagine that I mean there's nothing I would like to see like more South African-based National Geographers you know, National. Geographic Explorers more specifically.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and I mean it starts right here, knowing that one person or two people got there, so it makes it easier because the path has been identified. So, thibault, I had such a great time chatting with you today, learning about the work that you do, and, once again, congratulations on your award, and I'm so excited for the type of work that you're going to do but, most importantly, the impact that it's going to have in this space, but also on the other people who are going to be empowered by all the resources that you're able to now have.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you very much and I appreciate that and you've put it so well impact, you know that is at the core of what we do, and also the National Geographic community, you know. Impact and positive change we are all about that and I'm happy now that I've got a platform that will help me, you know, spread the positive impact and change and, I do hope, to reach as many young people as possible and show that it is possible. You just have to believe in your dreams and your goals.
Speaker 2:Absolutely To everybody else who's tuned into this episode. Thank you once again for listening to another episode of the Root of the Science podcast. Until next time, Goodbye.
Speaker 1:Goodbye.
